How can a 17yo (no running experience) get to a sub 15min from debut 20min 5k?

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Lmao there’s no chance. Kids run faster than that in middle school and never break 15

Genetics plays a massive role. Wouldn't put it past OP to go sub 16 though. That'll be average collegiate level?

This was on a track? You are going to have to build up your mileage over time. 20:xx is nowhere near sub 15 so it's not really possible to say if you can do it or not. But you need significant improvement in your aerobic strength. So start slowly building your mileage. I assume you are running track this spring? Are you a Jr or a Sr? I wouldn't worry about a time goal right now. Build up the mileage and gain experience.

Cjcjci wrote:

Lmao there’s no chance. Kids run faster than that in middle school and never break 15

He has as much chance as any other beginner. 20 minutes on no training is pretty good. You'd have to train for a while to see if you have talent for sub-15 or not. With no running experience, I only ran 58:xx for my first 10K. Some years later, I was doing 6 mile workouts in under 30 minutes.

Drop over 5 minutes.

Should do the trick

Nah Road. Overall uphill course (12 metres above start). Ran that last week, so I've started my first 50mpw session to build my aerobic base. How long should i keep this period for? A couple of months? I read a bit of Mafetone? and some Letsrun threads and they pretty much say easy base mileage at 75% HRmax?

In High school actually, last year. Will be moving to track soon.

Any advice?

zzzz wrote:

Cjcjci wrote:

Lmao there’s no chance. Kids run faster than that in middle school and never break 15

He has as much chance as any other beginner. 20 minutes on no training is pretty good. You'd have to train for a while to see if you have talent for sub-15 or not. With no running experience, I only ran 58:xx for my first 10K. Some years later, I was doing 6 mile workouts in under 30 minutes.

Comes down to 400 basic speed tbh. If he's not on sub 65 400m, he wont crack 15. How would you know though? Will take ages before he reaches anywhere close to his potential?

50mpw is a lot for someone who is starting out. You don't want to burn yourself out or get injured. I would have suggested about half of that in the beginning. But if you can handle it... I will defer to someone else when it comes to monitoring HR. I never did that. How you feel is more important. If you're grinding yourself into the ground every single run then ease up. Early on, the base mileage is what is important. Most runs should be done so that when you finish you could go a few more miles if you had to. Throw in a run or two a week where you challenge yourself a little more and take an easy/slower run when your legs feeling sore or drained. Keep it general early on. Then, just do the workouts and runs your track coach wants during the season. You are in the aerobic fitness building stage of your career.

Train hard for 5+ years

Hardloper wrote:

Train hard for 5+ years

How? Any programs/books/articles I should read or buy? What's the best way?

A decent way to start:

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?board=1&id=3522061&thread=3521677

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=4051072

Third week in. Hit 62mpw (100km). Hilly Long Runs (20km or 13 miles) at 8min/mile pace. Feel pretty good, could've kept going for another couple of miles, so seems good so far. Easy runs at around 8.30/mile pace, feel fresher after than before the run. How much base mileage should i hit and should i be increasing my easy pace or long run pace?

When should i start hitting harder workouts like intervals/fartleks etc? Got a few more months till track season.

Thanks for the reply zzzz

I'm not running with a club atm, so i don't really know many people who are much faster than me. Any other programs i can look into?

Bump. Anyone?

Read this, but adapt the week to a good mpw for you ( or just go by time it suggests) but remember Lydiard made this as a GUIDELINE so don’t follow it exact and monitor yourself. Always try to learn more too.

http://www.fitnesssports.com/lyd_clinic_guide/Arthur_Lydiard.htm

People have found the hill phase too extreme so I would mainly follow this for the “marathon” conditioning phase, and look into other training types later.

Other good links:

http://www.bunnhill.com/BobHodge/Special/LydiardInterpreted.htm

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=192559

http://www.letsrun.com/news/2006/09/wejo-speaks-why-i-sucked-in-college/

Just in case:

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=1065781

0/10 (perhaps 1/10 since you got some responses!!!!!!!)

NotTooOld wrote:

17 years old.

No running experience.

Ran 20.xx 5k this week. Looking to run 14.xx for college.

Not the same thing but.....my first ever 5k XC race was 20:05 on a flat course. Went 18:13 by the end of the season then 17:35, 16:16, 15:54. Never ran track in college, just XC. Then afterwards ran 15:43 on the track during marathon training in my late 20s.

Alan

I started running competitively at 17, 1st race was a 5k (XC) after ~3 weeks of training finished in 20:18. Finished the season with a ~30:45ish 8k (XC). Now at the age of 25 I am looking at going 13:30-13:42 for 5000m.

Tips/Tricks that I have learned:

1. Be patient

--you are legitamitely looking at years of healthy/ consistent training

2. Dont make ridiculous jumps in mileage

--Cam Levins started having his breakthroughs shortly after I started running and I legitimately believed that if I ran 150miles/week, I would be able to get to that elite level too, spent 4-5yrs chronically injured/sick/severely overtrained trying to grind my way to the top. By emulating training that wasnt for me. Probably could have gone sub 14 in less than 5yrs if I would have been patient and never ran over 80miles. (Learn from others but dont copy them)

--Now I hit 120miles/weeks but in relative terms I am not grinding it out trying to survive, probably run my best at around ~80-90miles/week

--High mileage does not matter if its followed by alot of 0 weeks

--High mileage does not matter if you neglect everything else that running requires (specificity)

3. Be an athlete

--develop a diverse skill set (eg. kick, gear changing, rhythm, sprint)

4. Learn to take care of yourself (eat healthy/ sleep/ stretch/ foam roll/ strength)

5. Become a good negotiator

--eg. Is today the day that I run a A+++ session or do I hold back and run a B+???

--eg. I have to double today but I am exhausted, will I bounce back tomorrow if I do or will I get hurt???

--eg. Is this the time to test myself and break through my limits (volume/intensity/race)???

6. Make running fit into your life, not your life into running

--the hardest thing about running is not putting in the work (atleast for me), its doing it consistently through all the ups and downs for 5-10+ years knowing that there is less than a 1% chance you make it to the top level, and all the work for no return other than personal fulfillment. For myself I know that other than the enjoyment of the sport I will never be world class. But atleast I will never ask myself, what if? or What could I have run?

7. Easy Runs

--It does not matter if you run fast or slow for them, what matters is how those paces fit into your training program and your coaches philosophies about training. Remember if your coach wants you to run faster during your easy runs its because he/she is considering everything before/after it and vice versa

--But its always better to err on the side of caution (push your ego off to the side) and just run slower if you are not sure

--Although if you are gonna run fast remember that physiology does not dictate psychology (it will probably feel hard, but metabolically it is easy)

...Missing alot but this is what I could come up with in 5 minutes, from my own experience

--Side note: are the talented kids, talented or have they been training before they ever knew they were training (lifestyle)