Returning from injuries better than before

Very interesting approach you have going here. I have a few questions:

Were the girls that had done your program on the bike for 8 weeks and then PR'ed after 10 days of running good? I am asking were they training as hard before they were injured than they were while training on the bike?

Do you think pool running is a better, equal or worse alternative to the bike? Eliptical? Would a combination be best?

Overall, I think that there is a great lesson to be learned from this. To get better nothing beats working hard. Thanks for the info!

Though my athletes have tried all of the various modes of cross training the exercise bike seems to be the one. The elliptical would seem to be next best but it again has the limitation of bearing weight on the legs so it is out of the question for certain injuries.

The pool is not even in the same league as one has reduced gravity which means one's heart does not have to work as hard. The pool simply does not get the job done.

The two who PRed after only ten days on their feet were good small college runners. They trained hard on their feet, but much harder on the bike. For instance, they could not do 20 X 1' on their feet. And they certainly could not combine that type of volume and intensity over a two week period (let alone the eight weeks they were on bikes) while on their feet. The bike bumped them up a notch. They were better athletes.

Backstretch -

Since many of your athletes reach a pb quickly after coming back from injuries, would you please kindly share with us what the training looks like after they set their pb's? What changes if any do you make to try to produce another pb?

I have to dodge that one just a bit. It depends on what time in the season the athlete returns to action as much as anything else. The athlete needs to be able to survive a collegiate season and run well at the end. That is always the goal.

I did mention the two who we tried to gear up right when they came off the bike simply because it was right before nationals and it was an opportunity that might not happen again for wither one. Both ran very well that outdoor season also.

basically, they blended in to the training planned for that time of year.

I have experienced similar success with stationary biking. The key is to wear a heart rate monitor, maintain a cadence of at least 80 rpms, and to pespire more than anyone else at the gym. I'll have to try that 20 x 1 minute workout to add a little purpose to my cycling drudgery. I like your ideas, as it enables a runner to cross-train with a purpose.

The one thing that I have to contend with is the idea about the heart rate of the pool vs. bike...your heart rate is lower in the pool when compared to normal running, that is true, but I've noticed that my heart rate biking and pool running are similar, as biking involves a much more limited muscle mass than pool running does. With either of them, the VO2 that can be reached is lower than with running, regardless. I trained with both throughout being injured, and I found that cardiovascularly, I could obtain a more max workout in the pool, as on the bike I felt more limited by quad fatigue and not cardiovascular factors.

Pool running is the most mind numbing activity known to man. Only do it as a last resort (i.e. if other x-training activities make the injury worse), as it does not help with the psychological component of being injured (in my mind, no sweating = no exertion). I like activities that leave a puddle of sweat on the floor (clean it up, of course). The more you cycle, the stronger the quadriceps become. The key is to cycle at a low resistance and a high rpm to prevent the quads from bulking up excessively. At first, you will be limited by quad strength, but after about 3 weeks, you will notice that your quads are more resistant to fatigue.

Interesting approach.

I was wondering how fast one should ride on a stationary bike while injured, during the normal rides as well as the tempos. Is there any hard and fast rule? How do you determine your AT on a bike? I usually think of those things in term of running pace.

Great info backstretch. I achieved the same results using a stairmaster. I was off for 8 weeks with a metatarsal stress fracture and an IT band problem. Six weeks after starting back running, I set a pr for 5k. I then split my workouts between running and the stairmaster and set prs at every distance I ran.

After a non running related injury last december, I have built up to doing 2 hours and 15 minutes on the stairmaster twice a day at the highest level it goes (196 steps/minute). My goal is to get in the best aerobic shape possible. It may take a year to a year and a half before I am able to run again, so this is a whole different ballgame than 6 or 8 weeks off. I am very interested in how this will impact my running.

Someone said that pool running and biking did about the same for their heartrate and I would agree with this. The reason that pool running is infact much better is because it is MUCH more running specific. You are working almost the exact same muscles. This will help keep your mechanics and your running efficiency at the higher level than biking can.

Those are some great success stories to hear. It should be very encouraging to anyone who is or becomes unable to run. I did end up with IT band problems last fall and finally almost cut out running altogether. For all of December through March, almost all I did was ride the bike and do stairmaster and eliptical workouts, usually at a high-intensity level. I resumed running in April (30-40 per week) and on May 1st, was able to run a 56:26 for 10 miles. I had no business getting this time, based on my running mileage which had been 400 miles in the first 4 months of the year. Things have progressed from there, and I'm probably having my best year of racing since college. Thank you, cross-training.

well, what would you recommend for someone who has piriformis syndrome and cannot stationary bike or swim or aqua job? Are people like me just screwd?

Hmmm, obviously not an easy solution then. However, I must comment I have never in thiry years had an athlete who was unable to reuturn to training from a piriformis injury within a relatively short time. I assume you have seen a good PT who has knowledge of treatment???

In response to runnnnner, if you have had success coming out of the pool and PRing within a relatively short period of time that is awesome. I, unfortunately, have never had an athlete who has been able to improve their fitness in the pool so I go with what has worked, the bike.

One additional difference between exercise biking and most other methods of cross training (have to admit have never had one really aggressivley train on a stair master) I have noticed is that when coming off the bike most athletes have increased their stride frequency due to the rapid frequency of pedaling an exercise bike. It would appear this has been a factor in improved performance.

Do you coach Jen Toomey?

Nope.........gonna be offline for the next three days....have a great weekend.....

Would like to try to revive this thread... looks like some good advice given.

I would also make a strong case to not dismiss the benefits of pool running. I strained my calf in late January, so for three weeks straight, I was in the pool for an hour per day using an Aquajogger at a steady to reasonably hard effort - you know you're working if you can feel a good burn in your quads and upper arms by the end of the workout. For the first several workouts you need to make a conscious effort to keep the intensity up to a beneficial level - it's very possible to just "tread" in the water for a long time and not get a ton out of it. Afterwards I was able to resume normal mileage for about a month, and just yesterday set a 5k roads PB (15.33) with almost no speedwork - I'm confident that the water running improved my fitness through this downtime.

For those concerned with not being able to work as hard or get your heartrate high enough in the pool with an Aquajogger/flotation belt, I'd encourage them to simply go without - take off the belt and try doing 5 min on/5 min off with wearing the belt and just "running" in the water with no help. THAT starts to make you tough. Once you're comfortable with that, start extending the durations without the belt.

This also makes for great cross-training even when you're healthy and want to supplement all the pounding with some good strength work.

Whatever you find that works, good luck to you!

I believe you are dealing with age 20 something athletes...glad I stumbled on this thread...well I'm a long term runner with chronic piriformis who IS still able to maintain some running ability but at a very slow trot.

Hmmm seems like from week to week I get new ideas and wondering if I were to go on the bike again as well as other fitness modalities, things would turn around.

Presently am getting 2x per week chiro. treatments as well as other types of treatment. Also specified exercises.

I DID try cycling most of last Summer and honestly though I was free of piriformis problem...but guess again Howard?

No I refuse to accept I'm screwed, haven't tried pool running lately, been there done that before, not really that satisfying though I differ in opinion in that one can get a good w-out in the pool. Just have to get my butt there in the water.

Bump, will discuss this later, have a good weekend.

If this approach advances more fitness than your teammates and you can become a better athlete than you could while running, should LD athletes do it anyway, even if not injured? Just wondering seeing as they all ran personal bests.