Chronic Dehydration?

Don't stretch your calves, ever. Just don't.

Second, it's possible your problem is due to diet not hydration. You do not mention what you eat in the days prior to a marathon. Do you eat sufficient carbs? Do you eat foods that contain sodium? Try toastados and saltier Mexican sauces like Pico de Gallo.

No stretching wrote:

Don't stretch your calves, ever. Just don't.

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Why no calf stretching?

Do you drink coffee?

My diet is pretty well balanced, pretty typical of a health minded runner who isn't diet obsessed.

Breakfast: yogurt and cheese, or hard boiled eggs, usually a couple of pieces of dark chocolate

Lunch: soup and sandwich or something similar

Mid afternoon snack: pint or more of fresh berries, pretzels, iced tea, sometimes raisins or nuts

Dinner: typically lean meat, fresh vegetables and a whole grain

After dinner snack: chips or pretzels, raisings and dark chocolate, fresh fruit

Weekends usually mean wings and fries one day, a steak one night, a lot more beer and chips, but generally my diet is well balanced and healthy with 55-60% of my calories from carbs, 20-25% from protein and 15-25% coming from fats. Those ratios stay pretty constant even the week of my race, although he volume typically goes up.

No coffee, although I do drink 5 Hour Energy, which I'm going to back off of because of the diuretic effect of the high dosage of caffeine.

Your body is telling you Marathons aren't for it.

Thanks, but I already booked a hotel room.

"My diet is pretty well balanced, pretty typical of a health minded runner who isn't diet obsessed. "

"but generally my diet is well balanced and healthy with 55-60% of my calories from carbs, 20-25% from protein and 15-25% coming from fats. "

If you can break your diet down into percentages, you are probably over thinking it.

if you are running high intensity (VO2 max,) and training for marathons, etc, you need to be eating more carbs - even the ones that you think are "junk" food. I have had similar issues with dehydration, and i also often utilize pedyalite as a fix-all for that. It is loaded with zinc and potassium that help with those issues, however i feel that if your muscles (whole body) arent carb saturated then how will that liquid gold help you?

More white rice, potatoes, wheat flour, etc.

If you are worried about gaining a few pounds, start body weight exercises (unless you already do them). Pushups, dips, and pullups/chinups in large, but controlled, quantities (every other day, every two days, etc) will really help you to stay lean while consuming more calories....

Ex, 5*25 pushups w 1 min rest, ect...you can get creative with it - almost like interval workouts on the track.

Cheers!

Have you tried any anti-cramp products like Hot Shot or Hyland's? Even just for the placebo effect taking one of these before races/workouts might be beneficial.

I was having some leg cramping a few weeks back and did some blood testing. Ended up having low vitamin d. Worth checking your electrolytes, iron, key vitamins, etc., if you haven't checked levels in a while.

I once heard this theory:

When you are overdrinking you sweat and pee more than necessary what might cause more electrolyte depletion than normal and therefore cramping probs.

My sweat rate is high. I use the sauna frequently plus train indoors often. Magnesium is by far the most important supplement I take for mineral replenishment after a heavy sweat.

Magnesium glycinate. Magnesium topical cream/gel. Epsom salt baths. Pumpkin seeds.

I've had calf cramping/issues when I'm not doing enough hip opening stretches. 5 minute couch stretch. Child's pose, etc.

I can relate to the Florida heat and cramps and how I deal with it, but I will not be able to relate to what happens late in a marathons.

Take us through your typical long run nutritional approach. Start with 12 hours before, during the run, and post run. Also, how well do you monitor the color of your urine throughout the day? Are you mixing salt tabs with enriched sodium fluids or salt tabs and just water? Are you taking in carbonated drinks before your runs?

In my approach to a long run I make sure that my urine is nearly clear the night before a morning long run. I usually drink some gatorade the morning right before my long run. I'll do my run a and finish my bottle of gatorade and usually drink some Fairlife Chocolate milk within 30 minutes of that run. During the summer I will usually bring a handheld bottle of water or gatorade with me. In the past I found that salt tabs only made my sweat more saltier but not exactly help me from cramping. I've even had times when mixing salt tabs and gatorade gave me more cramps than what I had to start with. What has helped me from cramping has been hydration hours before a run, and I do drink alcohol on occasion but rarely 8 hours before a run (never before an important race) and if I do consume alcohol the night before a morning I run I will drink at least 10 to 12 oz of water for every alcoholic drink I have. Every time I have ever had a carbonated beverage 2 hours before a run I get bad cramps.

Smoove. - I feel on the hot humid long runs you should carry some dam water with you. You can’t get adequate intake hitting a few bubblers. You need constant smaller sips .. it’s not like a 16 ounce bottle is gonna slow you down.. and it’s like strength work! In the summer I go on zero runs without a bottle of water. Even a 4 miler. I am an excessive sweater and bad in the heat. Have lost 12 lbs on a run in the summer

Chocolate sounds awful, despite having heard that from multiple sources.

But if you're going to ask for advice, you might as well take it if it is reasonable advice, so I put down a low fat chocolate miles after my run (along with a liter of water and a liter of Pedialyte). Pretty amazing how much more salt and potassium is in chocolate milk as compared to Gatorade.

A medium potato has more potassium than 15 ounces of milk. Way cheaper without the sugar/hormones/fat of milk.

1) I have read that sweating a lot is an adaptation to heat- so sweating a lot suggests you are acclimated. I also have heard that we don't really know what causes cramps. So I have another completely untested, off the wall theory- and another disclaimer is that you are a much better runner and more experienced than me...

2) I am 50+, running more than I ever have- and on age graded basis, the best I have been. As I have been increasing miles, there were times when I tend to cramp a lot. It can happen (calves) every night when sleeping , and it happened during some of my long runs. And it can happen during the day after a hard workout. So what seems to help is to be sure to be quite active- walk slowly a lot (instead of just sitting or resting on the couch)- move around, get a lot of other "steps" during the day, no matter how slow. I don't stretch at all, but being very gently active instead of sedentary somehow seems to greatly reduce the risk of cramping in calves and hamstrings. If that somehow carries over into the next run, I don't know- but maybe it does.

I have no idea of this idea is worth anything to you- but it sounds like you are willing to consider everything, so there it is.

I enjoy your many contributions to this site, and I hope you can solve this.

How much do you drink before heading out the door?

Damn, I just turned 45 and I'm 5'9 , and I fluctuate between 145-155( nothing lower or higher) in weight. I try to be around 147-150 on race day.

Off topic:

Is 145 your walk around weight, and you race at a lower weight? Or do you also race at 145

I race at about 145. I might end up a little lower toward the end of my training cycle, 142-143, but I usually go back up during the taper and loading stretch. I raced NYC 2014 at about 142, but my other two were 144-145.

My weight fluctuates a bit generally. I've been as high as 182, but since I've started running again I've typically been in the 144-148 range, with some higher periods when injured or coming off of a post -marathon break. I'm actually skinnier than 145 would suggest though - I've got a fairly broad torso for my size (33" waist, size 40 suit) - lots of bones adding to my weight total.