Dead Legs After 10 miles in a marathon. What does this say about my training?

Tapers are tough, though. I've seen a lot of people run very well off of very, very small tapers. Only small reduction two weeks out and then a sharper reduction the week of.

It's hard. Figuring out tapering is hard.

I know College XC is different, but listen to Mike Smith of NAU saying his guys were doing 90 mpw last week and then they come and hammer.

I don't have a great answer, but I do know it's hard.

Something in the taper. Been there done that. Have to learn what works best for you individually eg drop taper or slower. You can experiment w this in training periods too--eg take two days off after a long run and see how you feel--vs running short and easy after your long run. Have to assume all other variables are controlled of course.

Tired legs. Either you did too much for a few days leading up to the race, or you didn't get enough sleep, or you didn't eat/drink enough.

Think about activities that were not running. Lots of walking or standing always kills my legs.

Curious about this??

What kind of tapers do you all do that do work? Mileage reduction and workouts in the last few weeks?

whatdoeswork? wrote:

Curious about this??

What kind of tapers do you all do that do work? Mileage reduction and workouts in the last few weeks?

Like mentioned earlier, everyone is very different when it comes to what works, so you're going to have to do the trial-and-error thing to find your taper plan.

For me, I do best with a short taper (3-4 days for 5k, 8-10 days for HM, 15-16 days for marathon). I also taper doing the same things I was doing before, but less of it. In other words, I don't just run easy, I still include speedwork but shorten it. If I was doing 5x1000m weekly for 5k, I will do 5x400m at 5k pace 4 days before the race. If I was doing longish tempos, I reduce it to tempo pace pickups during an easy run in the final week. If I don't maintain some fast running, I will be flat come race time.

I've also found that for all tapers, if I am going to take a day off I'm better to do it 2 days before, not the day before. This also reduces being flat come race time.

The above approach might be terrible for someone else. Everyone is different.

PeterSSquash wrote:

By 620s I meant 6:20s on the nose, not 6:20-6:30.

Were the first 10K particularly different vs. your training routes? It seems like you had a number in your head and stuck to it without checking in with your body. It just doesn't work like that. Some days, despite great training/rest, your body doesn't deliver. This is why a negative split over the distance is always a safe strategy.

I'm not saying the taper suggestions aren't right because that's possible. The only way to figure out optimal tapers is to do them, and that takes quite a bit of time.

I'm going with "Went out too hard."

PeterSSquash wrote:

Pretty much did 90%/70%/60% last three weeks.

Tuesday before Sunday thon did 3 x 2 miles @ MP. Felt super easy.

3 x 2 miles is way too much week of. What would the value of that be?

I think you peaked a little early or you were overtrained

It happens.

I wouldn't attribute it to this one thing, but it's helpful to note this is too much the Tuesday before a Sunday marathon. Doing 3 miles at or around marathon pace the Tuesday or Wednesday before is fine as long as it doesn't feel forced.

And then it was gone wrote:

PeterSSquash wrote:

Pretty much did 90%/70%/60% last three weeks.

Tuesday before Sunday thon did 3 x 2 miles @ MP. Felt super easy.

3 x 2 miles is way too much week of. What would the value of that be?

I think you peaked a little early or you were overtrained

It happens.

+1. The most I would do the week of is 2 @ MP, but it's hard to say if that was enough to derail your race. Is 60% including the marathon? If not, that seems like too much to me.

training speculations wrote:

And then it was gone wrote:

3 x 2 miles is way too much week of. What would the value of that be?

I think you peaked a little early or you were overtrained

It happens.

+1. The most I would do the week of is 2 @ MP, but it's hard to say if that was enough to derail your race. Is 60% including the marathon? If not, that seems like too much to me.

+1 to this post. 3x2 is too much, but probably not enough to derail. 60%, if not including the marathon, is an outrageous number of miles. I'm usually in the 40% range. Will taper 85/70/40.

I think a lot of people differ on how to handle the first week (some are good with no taper at all, some need to cut to 75%), but I've found it pretty consistent that a sharp drop off in the final week works.

You clearly went out too fast for your level of fitness.

That means that your level of fitness was not what you assumed to be. Perhaps you tapered too little or peaked too early, the weather may have been suboptimal or you overestimated your ability to run 6:20s. How did you come up with this number?

I've never run a marathon, but -- perhaps too much taper? See Mike Smith's comments post NCAAs: we leave this kids lethargic [from too much taper]. He said he had his guys at 80-90 week before NCAAs

All the research on tapers say to maintain intensity while dropping volume a week or two prior. I agree that 60% of 75 is too much volume, but 3x2 at MP on the Tuesday before? That's a very easy workout, and not nearly intense enough in my experience.

That said I've only run 2:50 (first thon) but it was on 45 mpw average. (I feel hesitant to give advice considering I'm not a 2:45 guy (yet)).

Mid D guy wrote:

How did you come up with this number?

This is also important. Did you hit 10@M during a long run in your training?

The marathon I crashed the hardest, not my worst result I was well trained but had a really rich meal the night before. My parents came into town and I had all the wrong foods. About mile 13/14 I really started hurting. What was your pre-race diet including day before and morning of race?

I ran it 10, 12, and 14 miles throughout the training block. It was based on roughly a 1% improvement from my PR a year ago. Pre-race diet was typical plain pasta, rice, bread, etc. Nothing new there.

Did you run any races during your marathon buildup? Training times are fine, but there's no better way to check fitness than a (controlled) race. That is very likely why Salazar had Hasay and Rupp do a half before Chicago -- to see where they were at.

Did you run any races in the weeks leading up to the race?

Did you run your marathon pace runs and long runs on the roads or softer surfaces like trails, grass, etc.?

PeterSSquash wrote:

Peaked and averaged around 75 miles per week which was about 5 more than usual. Hit every workout in my schedule, including 2 hilly marathon pace workouts 4 and 6 weeks out from the race.

I felt very on top of my training the whole time, never lethargic or overly fatigued. 2. Week taper,but race day came and I was sapped early. What’s this a symptom of? Have six or seven marathon a in the book and this is the first time I felt this way.

What was your mindset when your legs started feeling heavy?

I find there are ups and downs in every marathon that I've run (the 3 good, and 1 bad). I remember once - in what ended being a very successful race for me - feeling like I was laboring at 10 miles, then great again by 12. I wonder if you were discouraged by hitting a rough patch, and your body followed suit.