NAU and New Mexico. So many foreigners... American XC under invasion!

Les wrote:

There are no universities in the NCAA that are only open to Americans. It's a multinational, multicultural world now.

How many Americans are running for NZ universities......full scholarship.

No other country on planet earth is so generous to young athletes from around the world.

No other country on planet earth is so generous to other nations development of their athletes.

No other country on planet earth has help athletes to win Olympic medals.

No other country on planet earth would let its tax system indirectly or directly, and through private funds, fund the schools, facilities, and programs, that so greatly benefit athletes outside of their own country.

For all of those on this site that slam the United States. The United States collegiate athletics system is the greatest incubator to the rest of the world’s athletes, as well as its own, on planet earth. The United States is the most generous country on planet earth. Benefits of our generosity, to the rest of the world, are often overlooked and marginally appreciated.

I wonder at times how long the generosity of the United State will last?

I don’t agree with the direction NCAA athletics is going where teams, in many different sports, are being increasingly filled with foreign athletes. I believe there should be roster percentage limits of foreign athletes put in place by the NCAA. My suggestion to the NCAA is 25%. Without such limits, and the multitude of countries with fine student athletes that don’t offer an athletic scholarship collegiate development system, the number of US athletes on teams will continue to decrease. The benefits, without the associated costs, are being felt across the globe at the expense of our US High School kids potential for further athletic development and at the expense of those here that pay for collegiate athletics.

foo wrote:

Les wrote:

There are no universities in the NCAA that are only open to Americans. It's a multinational, multicultural world now.

Very true. We live in a globalized world and with each and every day it becomes even more so. We need to stop whining about it and embrace it.

And who pays for it?

Always be thankful for what you have been given and don’t think everyone else should pay for your idea of utopia.

Stop your whining.

If you think its bad on the athletic side - you should take a look at the faculty. Increasingly, US kids can't even get into top PhD programs because they simply lack the skills in comparison to top foreign students. I don't have stats in front of me, but I'm a prof at a major D1 school, and in my field the US born new PhDs are definitely a minority (I'm talking about grads from top 25 US business schools).

Is this a problem? I don't think so. I have no qualms hiring a non-US citizen from a top-10 PhD program. We hire the best we can, to give our students the best education they can receive. And this is coming from a good 'ol boy XC runner from the Blue Mtns who managed to get a PhD and get tenured in a good program (while drinking as much Daniels as I did running with Daniels). Anyhow, in XC, as in academics, I think the coaches should recruit the best available from all over the world. Kudos to UNM and NAU. Ultimately, it will be a good kick-in-the-ass to the US runners (and students).

Having top foreign athletes in the NCAA makes American collegians better. Think Galen would be an Oly medalist if he didn't have Biwott to train with, and Chelanga as a rival? Jenny S. if she wasn't racing Kipyego? Yes it makes it harder for American 4:10 type HS guys to get a full ride, but it also means 4:10 is no longer anything special in HS, and it means that the top Americans in the NCAA come out ready to contend for global medals rather than being shellshocked by the quality of international post-collegiate competition.

You can think of foreign athletes as an "invasion," but if you really buy the "we're number 1" (woot woot thump chest wave flag), you've got to be willing to face the best competition the rest of the world has to offer.

Twig Mzungu wrote:

Having top foreign athletes in the NCAA makes American collegians better. Think Galen would be an Oly medalist if he didn't have Biwott to train with, and Chelanga as a rival? Jenny S. if she wasn't racing Kipyego? Yes it makes it harder for American 4:10 type HS guys to get a full ride, but it also means 4:10 is no longer anything special in HS, and it means that the top Americans in the NCAA come out ready to contend for global medals rather than being shellshocked by the quality of international post-collegiate competition.

You can think of foreign athletes as an "invasion," but if you really buy the "we're number 1" (woot woot thump chest wave flag), you've got to be willing to face the best competition the rest of the world has to offer.

At the top level maybe. But what do you sacrifice in the way of depth. What parent would encourage his decently fast kid to stay with running versus another sport he doesn't have to compete with the rest of the world for a homegrown scholarship. At least with football, baseball, you are principally only competing against Americans.

How many Brits are on American TV versus how many Americans are on Brit TV. Other nations protect their own.

I have no idea how many Americans are on British TV. I'm also not sure Britain is the example we should aspire to. I guess we'll see how Brexit plays out, but most of the economists I know (including some British ones) see Britain as the poster child for head-in-the-sand politics, fighting a loosing battle to isolate themselves. I hear the arguments, but I'm still unconvinced that "protecting our own" is a feasible strategy for international relations in athletics, economics, etc. The mentality that we can only get what we want by ensuring other countries don't get what they want seems to rule out a lot of possible win-win outcomes out of hand.

I'm sure you're right that international recruiting costs some Americans track/XC scholarships they otherwise would have earned. But anecdotally, my parents encouraged me to stay with running because I liked it, made good friends, developed good work habits, etc., not because they thought I would earn a scholarship. I was pretty happy with my D3 college experience (on a partial academic scholarship). I know plenty of other people with similar experiences, though I understand that athletic scholarships may be more of a necessity for kids from lower-income families. To me that's an issue with college affordability rather than athletic scholarships. If we had the political will to subsidize higher ed like most other OECD countries this whole scholarship thing would be a non-issue.

Kelati fled one of the most oppressive countries in the world, moved to an unfamiliar place where she didn't speak the language, graduated high school in three years, learned English, worked part time and and ran 70-80 miles per week. And you're going to throw shade because she's a bit old for a freshman? gtfo

DSB15 wrote:

How many Brits are on American TV versus how many Americans are on Brit TV. Other nations protect their own.

Not really. The British Premiere league is full of foreing nationals.

The only nation I know that has semi-protectionist athletic rules is Germany. They don't bar Bundes Liga Clubs from hiring foreign nationals but any German who wants to have a shot at a World Cup or National team has to play for a German club; so elite players are restricted from following the money to other leagues (although the Bundes Liga pays well).

They should replicate this in NCAA D1 basketball and see what people think. They would not put up with it.

Twig Mzungu wrote:

Having top foreign athletes in the NCAA makes American collegians better. Think Galen would be an Oly medalist if he didn't have Biwott to train with, and Chelanga as a rival? Jenny S. if she wasn't racing Kipyego? Yes it makes it harder for American 4:10 type HS guys to get a full ride, but it also means 4:10 is no longer anything special in HS, and it means that the top Americans in the NCAA come out ready to contend for global medals rather than being shellshocked by the quality of international post-collegiate competition.

You can think of foreign athletes as an "invasion," but if you really buy the "we're number 1" (woot woot thump chest wave flag), you've got to be willing to face the best competition the rest of the world has to offer.

I agree with the point you raise on athletes from other countries competing in the NCAA making American collegians better. As students, they also add to the education experience for all.

You miss understand my points. I want this exchange to continue but with reasonable limitations (25% of team roster). I don’t blame the athletes. I do blame the NCAA and coaches that heavily load their roster with foreign athletes for quick results.

Pointing out the generosity of the United States to the rest of the worlds athletes, that benefit from such at US tax payer expense and US athlete diminish scholarship opportunity, is not “woot thump chest wave flag” - it is fact.

If they did, the athletes would be inferior to those already in the USA and the product would suffer. So of course people would not put up with it.

Letsrun is filled with a gaggle of triggered snowflake slowpokes who can’t even make sensible arguments. It’s to be expected from guys who parrot a chicken hawk president who pretends to be protectionist while importing wives , making deals with uber rich Arabs, the chosen people, and asking Russians to hack the American government.

The only people complaining about foreign talent are the ones who aren’t talented enough to make it in the real world. Snowflakes who can’t handle competition. Triggered by seeing someone nonwhite faster than them. Start a movement, MASA. Make America Slow Again. Collect signatures from tax payers who want their college teams to hold scholarships for slower runners. Tell them lil Conner Buckley grew up in an affluent household, wore shoes since he could walk, was driven to school everyday in a BMW, and was used to running with a full stomach in the newest gear needs to be protected from hardened foreign students who are faster because they lived at altitude and are motivated to run so they can pull their families out of poverty. It’s not fair! We should hold 75% of track and XC scholarships for those with slower times and the altitude deprived. The taxpayers will be outraged and soon anyone with a 3:42 1500 PR will have a shot at winning nationals. Sign them up. You can probably get a dozen or more on Letsrun. I can’t wait to see this reach the Supreme Court. 4:13.07 PB Conner Buckley VS The State of New Mexico!

@AtWhoseCost - I agree with you that a scholarship to a foreign athlete means that scholarship doesn't go to an American athlete. Whether that's fair or not depends on the purpose of athletic scholarships. If the purpose is to give local taxpayers or donors some sort of ROI by funding local kids to college as I think you're suggesting, that's a valid objective, but as I understand it, scholarships as they currently exist are fair game for coaches to use in recruiting the best possible athletes. In that case, American HS runners need to beat out foreign competition to earn those scholarships. I'm not sure I would support it, but I think it's at least a reasonable idea to have some scholarships, especially at public schools, devoted to in-state athletes. But I would much rather see that scholarship money go to the best in-state students instead.

The weird thing about college athletics as a whole is that it float in this middle ground between being a market and a non-market. Coaches get paid; athletes don't really get paid but get free/discounted education + perks; there is clearly a product (athletic performance) that is sold in some cases (football and basketball) and free in others (virtually all track); and the whole thing earns revenue from a combination of taxes, tuition, donations, and ticket/merch sales. There's a fuzzy mandate, at least in the case of land-grant universities, to provide education and service to the state, but the incentives for coaches don't align with that. If scholarships are being taken away from Americans, I'm pretty sure neither foreign athletes nor coaches are to blame. I think the bigger problem is tying affordability of eduction to athletic performance.

Sounds like you may have benefited from scholarship. I did.

I came to the United States as a foreign athlete. I was one of three on the team (one female, two male athletes). I am exrtreamly grateful for the opportunity afforded to me. I was humbled then at the generosity of the United States and I understood then as I do now that I displaced someone else and someone else was paying for my education (plus my family as I wasn’t on full scholarship).

The growing trend of greater numbers of foreign athletes on team rosters - I do not agree with. Teams that have all or most of their points in XC coming from foreign athletes are taking advantage of the United States collegiate athletic systems generosity and the NCAA needs to rethink their policy on this. Coaches doing this are taking the easy way to accomplishment. It is a shallow accomplishment. At times it is a way for some coaches to advance themselves to better coaching jobs without having to show true development skills. It is also a way for some coaches to pad their wallets with results bonus monies. This may or may not rub people the wrong way but it does me.

I am a taxpayer and fan of Iowa State. They have 9 foreigners on the track team that I am pretty sure are receiving scholarships. Even as a track fan, I don’t agree with providing scholarships to foreigners at a taxpayer funded state school. Most of my friends and neighbors would not be happy to know that there is a scholarship track program at the state schools and they would be even less happy to know that some of the scholarships go to foreigners. The 4:15 guys and 5:00 girls aren’t fast enough to walk-on so they end up going to a D3 school and paying double what the state school would cost. So it really ends up being even more than the scholarships, it is also the roster spots. Some others just hang it up because they can’t afford to go D3.

Does anyone realize that Karissa Schweizer was not fast enough to make the Iowa State team so she went to Missouri.? What if she had gone the D3 route and never reached her full potential? There are many untapped US kids that end up hanging it up.

Iowa State and many other Power 5 athletic programs are SELF FUNDED. Maybe you guys should whine more about college football or basketball coaches making four plus million a year for mediocre results. But keep repeating lies until they become truths.

i hope the lumberjacks - no matter where they come from - keep spanking the rest of the NCAA!!

I am an American living in Europe and know a few who were foreign athletes. They take the spots, pocket the experience and go home to compete. One told me there will only be more as time goes on. With the internet it’s so easy to find these kids. Two from our club alone 2 have been approached by 20 plus US coaches this year. I like the argument that forgein comp makes us better but why not cap it to one full scholarship per team. Others can still come, they just need to pay for it. My child was offered 50 percent from our states flagship university back home. 3 spots, all full, are held by foreigners. This coach tries to take 1 per year that usually bumps another hard working athlete who has been in the program for years off the top 7. Super strong university and decent D1 program.

American's tax money pay for that not having Americans on teams.

Stop supporting those schools and tell them why you don't.