does the workout that brenda martinez posted on her twitter seem shady?

the letter why wrote:

Saying this workout is impossible without knowing the rest is completely asinine.

Have you guys heard the tale of the blind men and the elephant? That's what this thread is.

How are we not allowed to question her workouts when her racing form is nowhere near indicative of being able to do them?

If I had to bet, I would say Brenda can't break 53 in a 400m from blocks.

If I went on Letsrun yesterday and started one of those "here's my workout, guess my 800m time" threads and posted this workout, I'd bet people would guess a lot faster than 1:58.

The fact that BM did this means we are going to try to find some way to justify this because she's elite. If this was anyone else with a 1:58 we'd think they were lying.

YOU DON'T KNOW THE WORKOUT! If someone posted this, the first question would be "what was the rest?"

Didn't this lady make the United States of America Olympic team?

The 4 mile tempo was done on a bike path that was net downhill slightly. About a .5% grade downhill so it would feel flat, but runs fast. This is not at all a bad idea to get speed in that you otherwise can't do aerobically.

I don't know about the details of the 400 workouts, but the OP started off with an erroneous comparison. Using the IAAF Points Table you get the following conversions from a women's time to the points to the men's time.

52.89 = 1093 points = 46.28

53.95 = 1052 points = 46.90

57.23 = 0933 points = 48.77

41.23 = 0896 points = 35.07

Easy money fool.

Etch Sketch Univ wrote:

The 4 mile tempo was done on a bike path that was net downhill slightly. About a .5% grade downhill so it would feel flat, but runs fast. This is not at all a bad idea to get speed in that you otherwise can't do aerobically.

I don't know about the details of the 400 workouts, but the OP started off with an erroneous comparison. Using the IAAF Points Table you get the following conversions from a women's time to the points to the men's time.

52.89 = 1093 points = 46.28

53.95 = 1052 points = 46.90

57.23 = 0933 points = 48.77

41.23 = 0896 points = 35.07

Easy money fool.

Actually, using this point table, OP's original guesses seem quite accurate. Try again son.

hmmmmsketch wrote:

First 400 in 52.89, second in 53.95, 3rd in 57.23 plus a 41.23 300

Im dont have a great understanding of whats good in womens workouts, but doesnt this one seem pretty rediculous for someone whos only ran a 1:58.5 this year?? Like for example allyson felix just ran 49.66 for a world lead, and brendas first rep was only 3.23 seconds behind that, the world lead for the men rn is 43.6 , so thats like a dude blasting a 46.8 on the first rep, then coming back with a 47 high then a 50.xx before finishing with a 36 second 300, which is a pretty insane workout. You guys think she really ran it??

Translation:

I can't do that... must not be true.

No one cares.

I did a somewhat similar workout 2 weeks after running 1:52. At the time I had 50flat speed out of blocks.

400

4min rest

400

4min rest

2x200 w/1min rest

went 52.3, 55.6, 27, 28. Tied up pretty bad at the end of the 55, and the 200's were a struggle. All reps were done with a rolling start.

At first glance I figured her workout was impossible for someone at her level, but the more I think about the more plausible it seems. The key is the rest. If she's taking full rest then I think I it's possible.

In that case she should go out in 55 in a real race and we'll see what happens...ought to produce 1:54 that way.

You just did! lol

Bonkers wrote:

I did a somewhat similar workout 2 weeks after running 1:52. At the time I had 50flat speed out of blocks.

400

4min rest

400

4min rest

2x200 w/1min rest

went 52.3, 55.6, 27, 28. Tied up pretty bad at the end of the 55, and the 200's were a struggle. All reps were done with a rolling start.

At first glance I figured her workout was impossible for someone at her level, but the more I think about the more plausible it seems. The key is the rest. If she's taking full rest then I think I it's possible.

Do you realize there is an enormous gulf between a 1:52 runner and a 1:58 runner? That is the point everyone is trying to make. No it is not possible, unless Vigil "adjusted" the times as one of his former charges said he does sometime.

If Brenda were a 2:15 800m runner she might have been one of those crazy wannabe olympians with the bs instagram/twitter posts exaggerating or flat out lying about race times or achievements. But since she's world class we're more accepting if she stretches the truth.

If you raced 1:52 800m, then you are a male. Elite women 800m runners in 1:56 to 1:59 800m range can race closer to their 200m speed than can a high school or NCAA D3 male 1:56 to 1:59 800m athlete. Your comparison is largely irrelevant.

Lucky she's an elite wrote:

If Brenda were a 2:15 800m runner she might have been one of those crazy wannabe olympians with the bs instagram/twitter posts exaggerating or flat out lying about race times or achievements. But since she's world class we're more accepting if she stretches the truth.

Thanks for copying my post.

Next time read the thread first.

COACH J.S å ä ö wrote:

It is really a crazy workout with no purpose. I doubt a coach like Joe Vigil set up something like that. ;)

The purpose is actually quite obvious.

Do you even race the 800?

Bonkers wrote:

I did a somewhat similar workout 2 weeks after running 1:52. At the time I had 50flat speed out of blocks.

400

4min rest

400

4min rest

2x200 w/1min rest

went 52.3, 55.6, 27, 28. Tied up pretty bad at the end of the 55, and the 200's were a struggle. All reps were done with a rolling start.

At first glance I figured her workout was impossible for someone at her level, but the more I think about the more plausible it seems. The key is the rest. If she's taking full rest then I think I it's possible.

An actual thinking person! Nice post.

52.9, 54.0, 57.3, 41.2 (54.9 lap pace) is NOT that insane for a 1:57 runner. Think about her running a 1:57 splitting 57/60.

To the kids on the thread doubting this, stop saying that a rolling 53-flat is so crazy for her. With a rolling start, during race season you should damn sure be able to do 4 seconds quicker than your first lap. You think Rudisha can't run a rolling 45? You think Murphy can't run a rolling 46? Guess what, they can.

You have no idea of the recovery is and all of the comparisons you have made seem to assume 2:00-3:00. To anyone who knows anything about training, the recovery was obviously much longer than this.

Also, the fact that she craters to a 57 shows that YES OBVIOUSLY THAT IS FAST RUNNING FOR HER. It would be "BS" if she reported 53/53/53/53, but she slowed badly, EXACTLY WHAT YOU'D EXPECT from those lactic hits. (That's likely why the 4th rep was a 300, to get in one more hard rep while knowing that another sub-55 400 wasn't going to happen.)

doesn't look that crazy to me wrote:

COACH J.S å ä ö wrote:

It is really a crazy workout with no purpose. I doubt a coach like Joe Vigil set up something like that. ;)

The purpose is actually quite obvious.

Do you even race the 800?

He's not a real coach. Just some dufus on the internet. I mean, if he actually coached a guy with 1:44 speed, would he be on LRC everyday coaching that Island guy?

i would have had a hard time with this workout when i could run 1:53, and I could split 49 in the 4x400. Unless the rest was 10 minutes like others have said. Also, I wouldn't have seen much value in this workout with big rest since the last 400m was slow. she has a history of doing big workouts and not coming through in the end (see late winter/early spring tempos...)she works out too hard. if she actually did this workout, she probably went too far into the well and is going to be toasted in a couple of weeks - probably ran too hard here but felt awesome. I'm sure some of you know what i'm talking about where you do a monster wrkt, feel great, but basically realized later on that you peaked when you did that workout.

hmmmmsketch wrote:

First 400 in 52.89, second in 53.95, 3rd in 57.23 plus a 41.23 300

Im dont have a great understanding of whats good in womens workouts, but doesnt this one seem pretty rediculous for someone whos only ran a 1:58.5 this year?? Like for example allyson felix just ran 49.66 for a world lead, and brendas first rep was only 3.23 seconds behind that, the world lead for the men rn is 43.6 , so thats like a dude blasting a 46.8 on the first rep, then coming back with a 47 high then a 50.xx before finishing with a 36 second 300, which is a pretty insane workout. You guys think she really ran it??