Mary Keitany won more than $300,000 today
April 23, 2017
Common sense is that you don't wear new shoes during a marathon.
Plus, you Nike guys need to seriously look at the design of the Vaporfly Elite's toe area, they look too tight, in my estimation?
Anyway if I were Bekele I'd been sucker punching everyone passing me wearing Adidas :)
rojo wrote:
kasdf wrote:What an lousy excuse. If he had it in him, he would win it no matter what shoes he's in.
Are you crazy? Did you watch the race? Can you imagine running a marathon with a blister?
Bekele was amazing today. It's not normal that you get dropped early in a marathon and nearly win it unless the leader blows up. Yet that's what Bekele did today. He just kept coming back - refusing to give up.
There is a whole other thread where people talk about how his form is different - maybe the shoes are partly responsible.
Actually I agree with Kasdf. It could be true he developed blisters but if he is still the champion that he used to be, he would have stayed at the front and gone to win the race. Remember in 2015 Kipchoge ran in Berlin with insoles flapping all over? And had blisters because of that? He left no doubt that he was in it to win and went on to win with a good margin of over a minute. I don't buy Bekele's excuses, at all.
Will this Bekele shoe thread get as big as Rupp's hat thread?
Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:
Bad Wigins wrote:I counted him only 5 seconds behind at the 600m to go mark. He should have easily been able to switch gears and run the guy down. He wasn't racing against El Guerrouj or something. Obviously he threw the race.
When they were in the tunnel, then again just as they hit Hyde Park, the gap was down to 2s or less.
And I saw him casually waving to the fans like he was enjoying himself. Wasn't sweating at all.
But that would have been too obvious to be that close and lose. So he had to drop back a bit.
bkrunner wrote:
rojo wrote:Are you crazy? Did you watch the race? Can you imagine running a marathon with a blister?
Bekele was amazing today. It's not normal that you get dropped early in a marathon and nearly win it unless the leader blows up. Yet that's what Bekele did today. He just kept coming back - refusing to give up.
There is a whole other thread where people talk about how his form is different - maybe the shoes are partly responsible.
Rojo, you're wrong here. Making excuses about your shoes? That's junior high stuff. It's your job to make sure you're running in a shoe that doesn't give you blisters. Sure, Bekele refused to give up and made a courageous surge late in the race. That doesn't mean he's not lame for blaming the race on his shoes.
Correction: making excuses for Nike scum-- the corporation and the athletees-- is grade school. Eff 'em both and this corny PR stunt.
Bad Wigins wrote:
And I saw him casually waving to the fans like he was enjoying himself. Wasn't sweating at all.
But that would have been too obvious to be that close and lose. So he had to drop back a bit.
2/10
Bad Wigins wrote:
Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:When they were in the tunnel, then again just as they hit Hyde Park, the gap was down to 2s or less.
And I saw him casually waving to the fans like he was enjoying himself. Wasn't sweating at all.
But that would have been too obvious to be that close and lose. So he had to drop back a bit.
He did this in Berlin, must be a trick to get rid of stitch or cramping or lactic acid.
nikeman wrote:
Here's the deal with prototyping and customizing shoes for elites. They start wearing different versions of the shoe and then give feedback as to what they do and don't like. That feedback is taken and built into the next prototype. This can go on until they feel like they have a version customized and 'perfected' for a specific athlete. One they have a 'perfected' sample they may build a brand new pair based on those same specifications for race day. If you notice now all of the Streak 6 models have glued in insoles. The ones that Kipchoge wore may have been brand new and the spray glue that was used may have not gotten a bond and the insoles then worked free. He then went on to wear Vaporfly 4% prototypes in London and Rio with no issues.
Take Galen, for example. The shoes that he wore at Boston were modified for him between Prague and Boston.
Bekele had certainly tested shoes that were exact copies of the ones that he wore at London yesterday, but they made him a brand new pair for race day. Maybe he did something like a 10K tempo effort in the prototype and deemed them suitable, but maybe you aren't going to have a blister until you hit 15K at race pace instead. It could be something very simple. A rough seam, the race course and terrain, or temperatures and conditions on race day. Do you have any idea how many tiny variables can affect performance in a shoe? It's very hard to get it 100% right when you are customizing shoes for an athlete.
At any rate it's unfortunate that his shoes detracted from his performance. He ran a ballsy race and I thought that he might still have a shot at the win with half a mile to go. Hopefully he recovers well and we will possibly see him in the World Championships.
The Vaporfly Elite has had great success so far and this was an incident where it just wasn't tuned quite right for the specific athlete. The wear testing team works really hard to take the feedback from each elite athlete and to get the shoe 100% right for them, but it's not always a perfect process.
Interesting Nikeman, you'd think that a pro-runner and his team would have sorted this. Anti-blister spray is great (but I only used it for the half, once, still worked). I have not seen the Streak 6 up close just on tv, where I live Nike is only in generic sports goods store (I tried on the 4 or 5 with the flywire once, went to pay a bill and when I came back they were gone). I do have a newish pair of streak lt 3s and from what I gather the Streak 6 is a padded more marathon-focused version of the 3. Anyhow, from my observations the Vaporflys have yet to actually demonstrate a superior performance than the streak 6s. I am actually supportive of both Nike and Adidas (usually not) spending research $$$ on this because it might have spin off effects for the rest of us "time chasers."
It's Egun wrote:
C'mon man.
I'll call KB out.
Shoes cost me the race is something you hear from 'that guy'.
And please don't ever be 'that guy'.
This
nikeman wrote:
Here's the deal with prototyping and customizing shoes for elites. They start wearing different versions of the shoe and then give feedback as to what they do and don't like. That feedback is taken and built into the next prototype. This can go on until they feel like they have a version customized and 'perfected' for a specific athlete. One they have a 'perfected' sample they may build a brand new pair based on those same specifications for race day. If you notice now all of the Streak 6 models have glued in insoles. The ones that Kipchoge wore may have been brand new and the spray glue that was used may have not gotten a bond and the insoles then worked free. He then went on to wear Vaporfly 4% prototypes in London and Rio with no issues.
Take Galen, for example. The shoes that he wore at Boston were modified for him between Prague and Boston.
Bekele had certainly tested shoes that were exact copies of the ones that he wore at London yesterday, but they made him a brand new pair for race day. Maybe he did something like a 10K tempo effort in the prototype and deemed them suitable, but maybe you aren't going to have a blister until you hit 15K at race pace instead. It could be something very simple. A rough seam, the race course and terrain, or temperatures and conditions on race day. Do you have any idea how many tiny variables can affect performance in a shoe? It's very hard to get it 100% right when you are customizing shoes for an athlete.
At any rate it's unfortunate that his shoes detracted from his performance. He ran a ballsy race and I thought that he might still have a shot at the win with half a mile to go. Hopefully he recovers well and we will possibly see him in the World Championships.
The Vaporfly Elite has had great success so far and this was an incident where it just wasn't tuned quite right for the specific athlete. The wear testing team works really hard to take the feedback from each elite athlete and to get the shoe 100% right for them, but it's not always a perfect process.
Oh oh. Was it you that forget to glue in the insoles last year? You are not getting your bonus this year!!!!
Here is my POV as an industry insider:
1. Bad shoes need adjusted for elites - Normally because they are aesthetically over-designed or have features detrimental to fit and performance. i.e. High collars.
2. The Vaporfly's needs customised for elites to improve fit
3. According to your PR, The carbon plate needs adjusted based on each individual elite athletes specific needs. This is backed by the Calgary research which showed that if the plate is not set-up correctly it can be detrimental to performance.
4. Nike are trying to flog $250 shoes with a stiff plate that is not customisable to stupid customers who have a 50:50 chance on whether it will work for them. I don't understand how this has been missed Nike states that the plate needs customised then try and flog it.
5. Design > Performance - Why are some of the models with a high collar? surely the added weight is detrimental to performance?
6. Why are there wrinkles in the foam in all the pics? What is the compression set? How much does it degrade between km1 and km 42
By the way 95% of Adidas elite athletes wear the standard consumer available adizero model with no adjustments. Often out of the box on race day. If there are any modifications then they are implemented in the consumer model ASAP. See the outsole change on the adizero adios Boost from Gen 1 to Gen 2.
Oh and Wilson said that the adizero Sub2 is the best fitting shoe he has ever worn.
- BAM! Drop Mic!
- Custom Fitting for Elite Athletes? ... folks are getting to big for their britches. Tells me they aren't testing their shoes in high-demand workouts IOT be ready for game day.
UHHHHHH wrote:
Has it ever occurred to anyone that he just may be losing it? I mean this is 2 marathons in a row with fairly rough outcomes, and excuses for both of them, not saying everyone isn't entitled to a bad day, but maybe blaming it on the shoes isn't the best move....
Not at all. I've gotten a blister from shoes near my 5th toe and it was agony - that was a 10k run at hoggy jogger pace. I could only imagine the pain from this blister at elite paces during a whole marathon. If you blew up in a marathon you don't come back like he did. I just hope he hasn't gotten an injury from having to change his form.
He raised a fist to an Ethiopian supporter with about a mile to go.
At that point he'd cut back the leader from about 10 to 7 seconds and I took it to mean he'd got him.
If you look at the splits the leader rallied and held him off over the last mile.
Apart from "their" athletes, who get paid to wear the stuff, does anyone wear Nike these days? I'm talking about serious runners who have to pay for their kit. Looking at runners in the Gym i use and ones I see on the road i suspect the answer is not many, if any at all!
What kind of idiot wears new shoes?
Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:
Bad Wigins wrote:And I saw him casually waving to the fans like he was enjoying himself. Wasn't sweating at all.
But that would have been too obvious to be that close and lose. So he had to drop back a bit.
He did this in Berlin, must be a trick to get rid of stitch or cramping or lactic acid.
On the BBC, the commentators believed he was waving at people. I was shocked they did not realise what he was doing. Imagine for a second a professional runner waving at people in the hard part of a marathon, while trying to catch the leader. Shaking your arms to relax while cranking out sub-3 kilometres is amazing enough.
The only photo I have seen it looks like Bekele also is not wearing socks. If that is the case then he has no one to blame but himself for blisters..... Even more so than if he threw on a brand new unworn pair of shoes to race a marathon in.
I am a huge fan of Bekele, but outside of Nike literally forcing him to wear a brand new pair of shoes for the race, which is highly doubtful, the only criticism he should be making is toward himself.
That's enough trolling from you.
grox wrote:
Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:He did this in Berlin, must be a trick to get rid of stitch or cramping or lactic acid.
On the BBC, the commentators believed he was waving at people. I was shocked they did not realise what he was doing. Imagine for a second a professional runner waving at people in the hard part of a marathon, while trying to catch the leader. Shaking your arms to relax while cranking out sub-3 kilometres is amazing enough.
It was brain trust Paula who said he was waving at fans. I was gobsmacked. How are people this stupid allowed on TV?
kasdf wrote:
What an lousy excuse. If he had it in him, he would win it no matter what shoes he's in.
Ha ha! Hi-larious. I can see it now "Worlds Greatest Distance Runner Criticized by Local 5k Legend".