Dragging incident aside, why is it legal for an airline to force someone out of the seat they paid for?

step back wrote:

They had four fellow employees who wanted a seat and they were going to accommodate those employees no matter what.

This problem is avoided when the airline people are accounted for before the plane is filled. That is where the airline screwed up. How could they have messed up and not gotten the airline people on board before that? Where they late to the gate?

oh, in that case... wrote:

A bit skeptical... wrote:

Do we know for sure that he was a doctor? He could of course been making that all up you know.

Oh, well if he's not a doctor, smashing his face was totally called for. As a doctor myself, I often say that all non-physicians should be bloodied and broken on a regular basis to keep them humble.

Even more so when you are 69 years old. That makes so much more sense for police who turn into moron-thugs. Actually, those "police" guys were already moron-thugs.

Want a laugh? Check out United Airlines stock. They lost 800 mil ......so far.

Good going, you dickbag air pigs.

Ah yes....looks like he's a doctor with quite the interesting past. This story is now getting more interesting.

He might ultimately regret this 15 minutes of fame that he received.

United strikes back! Big time!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4401980/Dr-dragged-United-swapped-drugs-secret-gay-sex.html

step back wrote:

That right there was a $600 decision that cost them $830 million.

No, it was a $600 decision that cost their shareholders $830 million temporarily.

In the mean time, it would have set a precedent for a higher price for vouchers to anybody being bumped. They bumped 42,500 passengers last year. If they paid them all an extra $600, it would be $25 million extra that they pay each year. The stock will rebound soon enough when everybody forgets about this and the airline won't be paying out extra money.

exthrower wrote:

The passenger got screwed but he acted like a 3 year old....It was a battle he couldn't win so why make a scene? Act like an adult and raise a stink with the airlines later...

How did he act like a 3 year old? By refusing to be ordered around by his corporate overlords? By insisting on actually receiving the service he purchased?

Why are police inserting themselves into a civil matter between a company and its customer? Why do corporations get to have state enforced violence on their side?

Mr. Obvious wrote:

Why are police inserting themselves into a civil matter between a company and its customer? Why do corporations get to have state enforced violence on their side?

Not defending this, but it looks like the airline can revoke your right to be on the plane, despite you buying a ticket and being "boarded". I have "boarded" in quotes because apparently the airlines believe you are not "boarded" until the doors are closed. Once the airline evokes your contract to be on the plane, you become a trespasser and can be removed by the police.

sdfsdfsdfsdf wrote:

step back wrote:

That right there was a $600 decision that cost them $830 million.

No, it was a $600 decision that cost their shareholders $830 million temporarily.

In the mean time, it would have set a precedent for a higher price for vouchers to anybody being bumped. They bumped 42,500 passengers last year. If they paid them all an extra $600, it would be $25 million extra that they pay each year. The stock will rebound soon enough when everybody forgets about this and the airline won't be paying out extra money.

How many of those 42,500 were already seated on a plane and being bumped for employees who showed up after everyone was already seated on the plane? This was a unique situation.

And. Do you honestly think the CEO doesn't care about his stock market price? I'm not sure where you work, but losing your shareholders a billion dollars is a really big deal. Maybe it will rebound, but who wants that risk? Image matters and this is not ever going to go away, those images are on the internet forever. You might not think it's a big deal, because you are an idiot, but for everyone at United, and their shareholders, it's a big deal.

This says a lot more about the culture of the US than anything else.

"Do not resist. Comply, or there will be consequences". This is what it is all about.

For whose benefit are we doing this? The customers? The shareholders? The employees?

Everyone fucked up here:

- the flight manager for letting too many people on

- Dr. Dao (sort of)

- The people who removed him, by not keeping control of him

- The CEO

The general level of hostility between all parties is insane. This is no different than the police shooting a person on the street who is acting strangely. It is tolerated, and not a crime.

Welcome to the new USA.

A bit skeptical... wrote:

Ah yes....looks like he's a doctor with quite the interesting past. This story is now getting more interesting.

He might ultimately regret this 15 minutes of fame that he received.

Oh man. Another Mike Rossi? KP Kelly?

oh, in that case... wrote:

Oh, well if he's not a doctor, smashing his face was totally called for. As a doctor myself, I often say that all non-physicians should be bloodied and broken on a regular basis to keep them humble.

What about Dentist and Chiropractors? Real gray area here--they say they are doctors, but really? Maybe just a black eye?

luv2run wrote:

I have probably 500K in total miles flown in my life (almost 400K with United) and cannot remember a situation when volunteers could not be found. In fact, more often than not a flight is posted as overbooked and I volunteer and do not get bumped.

Interesting. I fly quite a lot, often with United, and have never been bumped off a flight.

However, I am beginning to think it might not always be the worst thing in the world, if I have nothing to rush home for.

How much would you expect to get as compensation? Do they pay cash or on to the credit card you booked with? That does not work for me, as then it would just go to my employer.

Presumably you get put on the next available flight but do they provide accommodation if that is not until the next day?

txRUNNERgirl wrote:

These were also my thoughts. Also, is he actually a doctor at all? If so, what necessarily gives that profession authority over anyone else's? If it was so important for him to be there the next day, why fly the day before? I'm not a super hero doctor or anything, but I always plan for potential flight delays, weather cancellations, etc. when traveling. I am not saying I 100% agree with how things were handled, but think it was blown out of proportion.

He is a doctor, though apparently with a shady past that isn't relevant in this situation. No one said being a doctor gives him priority over anyone else. But being a doctor and having a responsibility to see patients the next day is certainly a good reason to not want to volunteer to get off the plane.

On every commercial flight you have people that could volunteer to wait for the next flight for the right price, and people that really can't reasonably do so. They need to find the ones that are willing to rearrange their schedule for enough money to not screw the ones that can't reasonably rearrange things.

Not everything can be planned with extra travel days. What if a runner needs to travel to race, say the Boston Marathon, but plans to arrive the day before due to work and having a limited budget for hotel (or only having secured one night). A delay of full day would cause the runner to miss the race, so a flight the next day not an option.

There are also tightly scheduled work situations that I can think of. Actually, I can imagine volunteering to take the next flight on a lot of personal flights for the right amount of money (as long as they make sure to retrieve my dog from the hold and provide a pet friendly hotel). But I'd not volunteer for most work flights - it would cause projects to go over budget. I also often would have lab samples that needed to stay chilled or might have short hold times.

You don't get real money, just vouchers for future flights.

daily mail wrote:

You don't get real money, just vouchers for future flights.

Really? Wow. No deal.

zzzz wrote:

Not everything can be planned with extra travel days. What if a runner needs to travel to race, say the Boston Marathon, but plans to arrive the day before due to work and having a limited budget for hotel (or only having secured one night). A delay of full day would cause the runner to miss the race, so a flight the next day not an option.

In the dragging-off-the-plane case you would have no choice. You would be "re-accomodated"—United's name for it—with a smashed foot, and maybe a kick in the groin. Forget about your can't-get-off-the-plane race you wouldn't be able to run after getting manhandled by airport police and dragged off the plane.

Frequent Flyer wrote:

daily mail wrote:

You don't get real money, just vouchers for future flights.

Really? Wow. No deal.

Airlines usually offer vouchers, because that's better for them, but apparently the Department of Transportation has stated that you are entitled to a check instead, if you want it. I imagine that would be a more difficult process, especially because when asking for volunteers to get bumped they only say "voucher" and you are implicitly agreeing to be bumped in exchange for a voucher, not money.

Lots of behind the scenes stuff here. The guy allegedly had his license revoked for... well. read the link above... maybe he was high and not from alcohol.

It's not just a matter of "crew fly free." Crew fly on a space available basis and don't bump paying passengers. In this case, the crew was needed in Louisville, otherwise a flight might have to be canceled because of laws about mandatory crew rest. United might have had to cancel a flight if that crew hadn't been on the flight, which would have cost them well north of $100,000. (Of course, they'll pay more than that in the out of court settlement with this guy.)

Really boneheaded management. Just give real money and have a "Let's Make a Deal" atmosphere about volunteering. $400, $800, $1,000 and just keep going up.

"The first four hands I see will get this deal.... hotel, booking tomorrow on our 2:30pm flight and....... $1,500! Come on down!" It would be fun.

Someone would eventually decide that a one day inconvenience was worth taking a sick day at work and getting home a day later in return for the cash.