Kornheiser on Armstrong

Javaman wrote:

Do I think Lance used PED? Not a chance.

I don't know if Armstrong has used PED's or not however I think the above statement is incredibly naive.

Not a chance?

I believe that Lance is the Best of the Dirties Athletes. Meaning, all the top cyclist use, including Lance, and he drilled them all for 6 years.

I don't think anyone could realisticly compete at a high leve in the sport w/o using because drugs are so previlant. Not using EPO would be like using a 10 speed bike.

People like sports and certain people like certain athletes.

When an athlete they like does well, they like him more.

When an athlete they don\'t like does well, they like him even less.

There are some \'tweeners on the fence that like the athlete, but don\'t know how he/she can be doing so well without illegal help. We\'ll call them Jaded.

Very few fans like a cheater.

So is it Lance\'s fault the test always come back clean?

The biggest problem is that Lance can\'t prove a negative.

Is it his job to prove he is clean or the test to prove he is dirty?

Or is it merely his job to produce the samples when asked?

If he produces samples that are tested and show no evidence of illegal drug use what more can he do? It is a circular argument that is pointless.

When asked what he is on he replies \"My bike. For 6 hrs a day. What are you on?\"

Most people that like Lance think he crushes based on natural ability.

Haters \"know\" he is cheating and using.

I am not jaded. I am not naive. But, why waste time on useless conjecture, or impune someone\'s integrity by making accusations based on nothing but intuition and accusations from third parties?.

Some Jaded people just call it being \"realistic\". They can\'t understand how a \"clean\" athlete can dominate a sport that has a multitude of \"dirty\" athletes. It defies their mental reasoning. But, it also illustrates how one extremely small group of \"dirty\" athletes can affect the perceptions of a fickle and upset fan-base.

It is virtually impossible to name an elite athlete anywhere that isn\'t accused of doping. Can they all be dirty?

How about this? If you are jaded, suspend your \"reality\" and enjoy the moment. If he ever turns out to be \"dirty\" you will experience the fall of a hero. But, until then, give yourself the opportunity to experience one of the greatest TDF athletes in your (or any) time. Right now we should just enjoy the experience.

In 30 years people are going talking about it how incredible his achievements were and the only thing some people will remember is that they \"thought\" he was dirty. But what will they base it on? performance? accusations? intuition? paranoia?

If you are a fan of sports, you will see the demise of the cheaters. You will see some bad examples fall from grace. But, this is not the main reason you love sports. You love sports because of performance, spirit and legend.

Life is too short to be looking around the corner for every cheat and swindler. You\'ll eventually see them. Until then, sit back and enjoy the show.

Well done!

SmellTheGlove wrote:

I believe that Lance is the Best of the Dirties Athletes. Meaning, all the top cyclist use, including Lance, and he drilled them all for 6 years.

I don't think anyone could realisticly compete at a high leve in the sport w/o using because drugs are so previlant. Not using EPO would be like using a 10 speed bike.

Amen. This is just a sample of what Kornheiser should have written.

The difference between the Marion Jones accuser and the Lance Armstrong accuser can be summed up with the question "Why?". Why would Conte accuse Marion if it wasn't true ? Think it's the govt offering a deal if he comes clean and names names. Maybe, but he's got too many other athletes (baseball players) that he could throw under the bus to need to add another athlete who is clean. Despite what we'd like to believe, track and field athletes are small potatoes when they're compared to other sports. Just look at the difference in salary between the AVERAGE baseball player in the majors compared to the ultimate, elite in track and field. People are willing to pay superstar ball players tens of millions per year to entertain them (ie., they care). Tell me what track and field athlete makes over a million or two. Practically none.

In my opinion, LA's accuser is just trying to lend credit to his lawsuit, and trying to gain some recognition for himself. I'm not stupid enough to think it's not possible that LA used performance enhancing drugs, but if he was ever caught and proven, it would be by far the biggest drug scandal of them all. The two most recognized athletes in the world ar Yao Ming and Lance Armstrong. It would be devastating to his career, his family, his future, his legacy, and his foundation if he was ever caught on PEDs. He has to know that. It would be way too big of a risk.

His success isn't only based on his own talent, drive, determination, will, and training. It's also based on who he surrounds himself with. Teams play as big a part in the TdF as any other sport around. When Lance personally struggles due to a bad day, sickness, whatever, his team is there to control the race, squelch attackers, and keep him in the hunt. When it's time for him to make a move, his team is there to assist and sacrifice themselves for him. When they aren't up to the task, he still rides ok, but doesn't dominate like he does when they're on their game. A great team can still overcome a single superstar rider, even if that rider is on PEDs.

Every team uses race strategy and tactics.

They support their strongest rider with "domestiques" so he can get the win. Of course the team makes a difference. Many of Lance's supporting riders could be the leader for other teams (many are).

Your point doesn't diminish LA's accomplishments, but it does illustrate the greatness within his team.

Kornheiser did what he does best, asks the questions or makes a statement that makes you think, argue, laugh, or just become confused.

That's why Kornheiser was, is on Pardon the Interruption, (though I'm not sure it's still airing), he'd argue all these weird directions and it is very entertaining.

He is kind of dorky though, like most sports writers.

Exactly. I think Lance's team gets him to the edge, and his natural talent, plus his relentless training and iron will are enough to push him to the top of the podium. Drug free.At least that's what I hope. But when you win so often, and your sport is riddled with dopers, you're going to be under constant suspicion. Nothing wrong with that. Just keep passing every test they throw at you and all it will ever be is suspicion.

and... wrote:

Of course the team makes a difference. Many of Lance's supporting riders could be the leader for other teams (many are).

Madein_82,

It is an investment to follow an athlete, pin your hopes on an athlete. It would suck to have people come back after the fact and say "I knew it! I told you he doped!"

And really it is trust that limits our level of involvement.

You know your limits.

Instead of just denying being on drugs, why don't some of these athletes tell us what they do use. We know they're not out there on Gatorade and PowerBars. Someone give us a menu of what it takes to kick ass that royally.

Sir Lurkalot wrote:

Jan - most people think LA is a god and an inspiration. You must run in a tight, cynical circle.

As for you, stop posting and get back to your warehouse party. I hear there is some really potent E floating around on the dance floor. You'll need two pacifiers to keep from grinding your teeth off.

Also try to keep that porshe on the road this time. Those Bike racks don't grow on trees you know...

kent wrote:

Exactly. I think Lance's team gets him to the edge, and his natural talent, plus his relentless training and iron will are enough to push him to the top of the podium. Drug free.

At least that's what I hope. But when you win so often, and your sport is riddled with dopers, you're going to be under constant suspicion. Nothing wrong with that. Just keep passing every test they throw at you and all it will ever be is suspicion.

and... wrote:

Of course the team makes a difference. Many of Lance's supporting riders could be the leader for other teams (many are).

Everyone at that level works their ass off. and maybe in the begining Lance trained differntly then other but everyone has caught on by now. lance is better than everyone else for one simple reaons. Genetics. he is a genetically gifted aerobic athlete and all the other things have just allwed him to reach the potential of that genetic capability as opposed to Jan, who maybe even more gifted, but isn't mentally strong, is a little unfocused, has sourrounded himself with people whom don't whip him into shape and frankly has a bit of propensity to get sick.

It is kind amazing to think of something like that. Maybe Jan if he reached his absolute potential could produce .5-1% more power than Lance but maybe he never gets there because he has a slightly less effective immune response to to the influenza virus and therfore gets sick or has to throttle back in the early days of his preperation and never gets there. Therefore Lance is a slightly better athletic specimen.

Ok so maybe hamilton gets away with it maybe he doesnt.

Frankly i dont care.

its not going to improve my opinion a great deal.

Friend, yours is a cogent piece of expository writing, about the best I've seen on this board. Clear, thorough, from the gut w/the right touch of philosophy. Well done.

I want very much to believe LA is clean. I've drifted into a bit of cycling and my appreciation and interest in his accomplishments have risen dramatically. Watching him on OLN last summer was about the best 'ride' in sports ever for me. It's understatement to say he's an inspiration on the bike and off. He is deservedly 'bigger than life.'

Winning 6 TDF's is huge, altering what we think is physically possible. One side of me thinks this is one skinny Texan who's game is simply better than the other guys. He is, as his books and life story have played out publicly, truly a sum of all parts. It would be oversight to believe he's done what he's done since '99 if he hadn't beaten cancer.

But. I can't help myself. A small part of me wonders, is he clean?

well said!

He appears exceedingly loyal and grateful to the people who stood behind him when he was ill and rehabilitating

You mean like the girlfriend who stayed with him through his illness and rehab then he dumps for Kiki.

If you talk about cycling, know your role. They just came out with 10 speed gearing. AND he probably could ride only 10 total gears and still kick some, you think they use all 20 gears in a race? Not a chance.

uhhhh wrote:

If you talk about cycling, know your role. They just came out with 10 speed gearing. AND he probably could ride only 10 total gears and still kick some, you think they use all 20 gears in a race? Not a chance.

lol.

lance fans are the greatest.

DAMN RIGHT HE COULD WIN ON A 10 SPEED!!!!!!!!!!!!!

hell he could probably when on a BMX bike.