Honest Immigrant discussion

Mohammad, Mohammad, Mohammad, Mohammad and Mohammad.

The question of immigration is philosophical--do people have a right to come here and whose well-being should the government prioritize. It has nothing to do with the character of individual immigratents.

Up here in Canada, I believe the percentage is somewhere between 15-20% of people who are now citizens were not born in Canada. So I have many friends who immigrated from Europe, Africa, Asia, etc.

If you would like to have an honest conversation on immigration, here is my opinion. I believe that immigration cannot happen all at once, no matter what country, it is a process. If you use muslim countries as an example, one host country(for example Sweden) cannot allow a mass immigration all at once or in a short period of time. If too many immigrants are allowed at once, there will not be enough time for them to assimilate to the host country, and instead of adopting the culture of their new country, they will continue the culture of their country of origin.

I think it is great to live in a diverse country, however, if their form of diversity includes demeaning women, and obtaining ethics from their holy book instead of law and reason, then this can be a problem.

Overall, I believe it is a good thing, but it is very difficult to do.

What does giving five immigrants by name have to do with it?

The issue has been centered around safety and crimes.

Do immigrants present a higher risk of violence and crime that hurt people than the general US population?

They don't seem to.

We are mostly subjected to violent crimes here committed by US citizens.

And of course there are the citizens that steel or embezzle money.

It's a very complicated issue.

it's wrong for pro-immigrant people to not confront problems.

From all I've seen...first gen unskilled immigrants are a drag on the economy. They don't speak english, they don't work, they use a lot of social services.

2nd gen, that all flips around and the kids do better than the natives, adj for social status.

Crime...it's tricky. Sure immigrants commit crime at a lower rate than natives. But that's still extra crime, when you let in immigrants.

And also there is a cultural issue...we have to preserve the golden goose that is America..rule of law, solid contracts, trust in fellow citizens, honor system on taxes....these things can go away in a generation if we are overwhelmed by foreign cultures.

But we need population - we would have a shrinking population soon w/o immigrants. That would be deadly to a nation such as ours. We need more people, unless we want to settle.

And we need vitalty - an enormous number of successful businesses are started by immigrants.

but of course, very rarely immigrants from mexico, guatemala, africa (except white people from South Africa). So it's very tricky.

Yeah you right wrote:

I am only interested in those that can name 5 immigrants by name.

This eliminates me. I would be ignorant to pass judgement one way or another.

I am curious over whether or not you see them as a threat to America.

Sure. Some I know include my mom, my dad, my uncle, another uncle, another uncle, another uncle, my late grandmothers, and many, many more not related to me such as a ex-coworkers, ex-classmates from high school and college, people in the communities where I've lived. My parents met in grad school at University of Oregon in the early '60s. Where the heck do you live where you know a single immigrant.

NONE of the hundreds of immigrants I've know and have known are a threat to America.

Typos... Where do you live where you don't know a single immigrant? And I've should be I in the last sentenc

I worked for a while with an attorney who lived in Iran until she was about 8 years old. Her family fled after the revolution and came to the US in the 80s. She is quite attractive.

My orthopedist is from Puerto Rico. He came to the US on the medical school visa program and had to work a couple of years in a rural Louisiana hospital as part of his visa deal.

One of my son's best friends at school was born in the US, but his family came to the US in the early 90s as refugees of the El Salvador civil war. They are on their way to getting US citizenship, but are pretty freaked out about what is currently happening.

I live across the street from an elderly woman who came to the US from Mexico in the 1970s. She raised 8 kids by herself after her husband passed away in his mid 40s. She entered the US with her husband illegally, but later became a US citizen after about 25 year of living in the US.

I have a client who is originally from Egypt. He is married to a woman who is from Mexico. They say that their kids are Egypxicans.

I have no problem with immigrants...if you go through the proper channels...but what part of the word ILLEGAL is so hard for people to comprehend? If you're here illegally, sorry, but you have no rights to the benefits provided by this country.

agip wrote:

From all I've seen...first gen unskilled immigrants are a drag on the economy. They don't speak english, they don't work, they use a lot of social services.

Are you talking legal or illegals -- or both?

Not a bad driver wrote:

agip wrote:

From all I've seen...first gen unskilled immigrants are a drag on the economy. They don't speak english, they don't work, they use a lot of social services.

Are you talking legal or illegals -- or both?

legal.

But probably similar numbers for illegal, esp if they have an american child or use health care.

some data on this in this link:

"It's just obvious you can't have free immigration and a welfare state,"

-- Milton Friedman

... who was otherwise a strong proponent of immigration.

I agree completely with Ricing about the trickle versus flood aspect of immigration. Diversity of people is fine, but we need to be unified when it comes to laws, civil rights, and some basic common values. Letting huge numbers of people come in from a place where civil rights are very weak or the value system is the opposite of the indigenous population will inevitably weaken the host country's civil rights.

Also, if immigrants are expected to embrace their new country, its laws, its culture, and its people, then immigration is a win-win. But in our current environment where even our own kids are taught that white Christians of European descent are the cause of every problem in the world, that every other group of people are perpetual victims, and that some form of punishment or compensation needs to be dealt out indefinitely to right all of history's wrongs... well, it makes no sense at all to bring ANTONE else in the country because all it will do is feed the growing animus between the villains ( who have done nothing wrong) and the victims ( who have not been wronged).

So as long as our society is based on grievance politics, shut the gates until we can get ourselves sorted out. Otherwise its just cultural suicide.

and that piece is a nice summary of the complex nature of immigration - good and bad. Interestingly, it ties immigration to levels of political polarization.

it doesn't deal with the 'where' of immigration. I mean it seems perfectly obvious to me that we should be enticing all the asian immigrants we can possibly find and setting them up here with small business loans, etc.

unskilled immigrants from most other regions...not as great for the country.

I'd love to see some numbers with Asian immigrants left out. I suspect the numbers would be a whole heck of a lot less positive.

Illegal immigrants are mostly those without proper documents.

So the way to handle them is to make paths to get them the proper documents.

And I don't know the problem with unskilled immigrants.

There is a demand for them in that they do necessary jobs that others don't want to do.

They pay into social security and medicare when the employers do the right thing.

The real problem is with employers doing the wrong thing. Maybe they should be targeted more than the immigrants.

They also tend to take care of their own more while other Americans will leave family members hanging.

L L wrote:

Illegal immigrants are mostly those without proper documents.

So the way to handle them is to make paths to get them the proper documents.

And I don't know the problem with unskilled immigrants.

There is a demand for them in that they do necessary jobs that others don't want to do.

They pay into social security and medicare when the employers do the right thing.

The real problem is with employers doing the wrong thing. Maybe they should be targeted more than the immigrants.

They also tend to take care of their own more while other Americans will leave family members hanging.

unskilled immigrants make $7 an hour and pay very little in taxes. but they use up much social services. School, medical, streets, police.

and they lower wages for native borns.

In the past unskilled immigrants could get decent work in factories and move up the ladder...that is a much smaller path now. it's different now - we can romanticize our dirt poor ancestors coming here and doing well...lord knows that describes my grandparents...but I fear that path is harder to take now.

Yeah you right wrote:

I am only interested in those that can name 5 immigrants by name.

This eliminates me. I would be ignorant to pass judgement one way or another.

I am curious over whether or not you see them as a threat to America.

Are we trying to include refugees as immigrants in this discussion? Or are we limiting this to people who came to America (through legal means or otherwise) but weren't fleeing a specific humanitarian crisis?

The unskilled laborers are helping to build the schools and the roads.

And at a lower cost to tax payers.