Huh??? wrote:
What? Next you're going to say that crime in the USA has been dropping for 25 years!
Why are you so dishonest? Or do you really think that the USA is only 25 years old?
Huh??? wrote:
What? Next you're going to say that crime in the USA has been dropping for 25 years!
Why are you so dishonest? Or do you really think that the USA is only 25 years old?
El pendejo wrote:
probably not wrote:My idea was that manufacturing productivity was likely higher immediately after the war than in the middle of the war. Do you have evidence to the contrary?
Sure:
http://www.macrotrends.net/2583/industrial-production-historical-chartThis chart suggests that there was a "local maximum" in the latter part of 1944, then a postwar trough that lasted through the second half of the '40s. Only in 1950 did output once again reach the 1944 levels.
This makes sense to me. The great bulk of the U.S. population stayed home during the war years. In particular, most women (though not my mom-to-be!) stayed in the U.S., and they (Rosie the Riveter et al.) participated in the US's enormous armaments production.
Yes, immediately after the war, most of the guys came home (and most women in factories were laid off); but government-financed armaments production nosedived and the economy moved into a significant recession.
[NOTE that this chart includes more than just manufacturing, but it still gives a solid idea of the general situation. Sorry, it's the best I could find right now.]
Also note that it takes a several years for factories to convert to making other products. First a decision on what to retool to do. Then design of the new products. Then worker retraining and factory conversion.
If based on manufacturing employment, it appears to be around 1979.
Interestingly, manufacturing employment rose during both the Clinton and Obama administrations, but fell during the Bush 1 and Bush 2 years.
Productivity is not the same as production. All it means is that the stuff that is being produced here costs less per unit. It doesn't mean we are manufacturing more shit.
When are we going to bring the farming jobs back?
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_otfwl2zc6Qc/S7v_t-YLdiI/AAAAAAAANL4/mvqKtxmrbg8/s1600/farmjobs.jpg
Financial Economist wrote:
If based on manufacturing employment, it appears to be around 1979.
http://s1.ibtimes.com/sites/www.ibtimes.com/files/styles/embed/public/2014/04/08/bls-us-manufacturing-jobs-compared-services.pngInterestingly, manufacturing employment rose during both the Clinton and Obama administrations, but fell during the Bush 1 and Bush 2 years.
Nothing new about that. They call it a recession for a reason.
jjjjjj wrote:what is total world manufacturing? How has the U.S. share of world manufacturing/manufacturing jobs changed?
See Figure 2 on Page 3.
https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R42135.pdfAnd this one. The peak was around 1960.
http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/Mfg%20output.JPGQuality resonders only wrote:
Productivity is not the same as production. All it means is that the stuff that is being produced here costs less per unit. It doesn't mean we are manufacturing more shit.
True. However, this does not contradict my previous post.
gfer wrote:
Right now.
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/OUTMSThere's nothing wrong with American manufacturing per se. The primary reason that factory *jobs* have dwindled is automation, not off-shoring--and automation cannot be rewound.
I'm not convinced that graph shows what you think it does. It shows an index that measures economic performance, not factory output. From the us gov source,
"Labor productivity is a measure of economic performance that compares the amount of goods and services produced (output) with the number of hours worked to produce those goods and services. The BLS also publishes measures of multifactor productivity."
Now for the personal anecdote. In the last 15 years my company has closed or is closing 2 factories in Maine, 1 in Nh, 2 in PA, 1 in NY, 1 in RI 1 in KY and a branch in NJ. Probably more but can't remember all of them. Have opened factories in Mexico, China and the Czech Republic. Some manufacturing has remained and will remain in the US.
The graph is labeled "manufacturing sector: real output."
Here's how (real) output is defined:
"Real output is nominal output of a country, adjusted for inflation. From Wikipedia: Output is the quantity of goods or services produced in a country in a given period of time. The given period of time is usually per year, and the quantity of goods and services (G&S) is valued in terms of $."
So I'm a bit at a loss here. Are we looking at different graphs?
Before WWII British Empire fought Japanese efforts to implement it's
international trading system 'Globalism" in China and Eastern Asia.
But by the mid-1950s Imperialism lost and Globalism eventually replaced Imperialism.
US mfg peaked after WWII since the world was decimated by war and there was no one producing anything.
The US never was dominant due to technical skill alone.
By the 1950s Asia and Europe began to rebound.
In the 80s the USSR collapsed and started globalization.
Currently China is in decline and may rebound due to it's commintment to
Globalism.
To bad n 2017 the US has decided to withdrawal from the world scence.
Obviously haven't driven a Chrysler Minivan lately. They're all over the road, and they are shit.
Quality resonders only wrote:
Productivity is not the same as production. All it means is that the stuff that is being produced here costs less per unit. It doesn't mean we are manufacturing more shit.
You dopey moron, you need to look at the Capacity chart and unofficially it was during WW2. The late 1960s was probably the highest since. Under Obama it averaged the lowest since ww2, GWB and Obama never went above 78% every other post ww2 President did above 80% (more like 83%)
Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:
You dopey moron, you need to look at the Capacity chart and unofficially it was during WW2. The late 1960s was probably the highest since. Under Obama it averaged the lowest since ww2, GWB and Obama never went above 78% every other post ww2 President did above 80% (more like 83%)
Manufacturing is *making stuff*. The U.S. is making more stuff now than ever before. Therefore its manufacturing is at a peak.
A running analogy (just so the entire thread isn't NRR): Suppose I was training at my absolute limit three years ago, and running 60 mpw; and now I'm covering 80 mpw, even though I have the "capacity" to run 90. My mileage is still at its highest point ever. I was *not* at my highest point, three years ago.
Look, I'm not necessarily *happy* that this occurred on Obama's watch--I didn't vote for him either--but it's the reality. For personal reasons I sincerely hope that the trend continues upward during the Trump years, though if we really get involved in trade wars I don't see how it can.
Screwdriver Plants and Robots assembling foreign made parts, is NOT "making stuff".
gfer wrote:
Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:You dopey moron, you need to look at the Capacity chart and unofficially it was during WW2. The late 1960s was probably the highest since. Under Obama it averaged the lowest since ww2, GWB and Obama never went above 78% every other post ww2 President did above 80% (more like 83%)
Manufacturing is *making stuff*. The U.S. is making more stuff now than ever before. Therefore its manufacturing is at a peak.
A running analogy (just so the entire thread isn't NRR): Suppose I was training at my absolute limit three years ago, and running 60 mpw; and now I'm covering 80 mpw, even though I have the "capacity" to run 90. My mileage is still at its highest point ever. I was *not* at my highest point, three years ago.
Look, I'm not necessarily *happy* that this occurred on Obama's watch--I didn't vote for him either--but it's the reality. For personal reasons I sincerely hope that the trend continues upward during the Trump years, though if we really get involved in trade wars I don't see how it can.
During the Civil War.
Former Delphi worker wrote:
Screwdriver Plants and Robots assembling foreign made parts, is NOT "making stuff".
Actually I'm pretty sure it is...just not making stuff the way you'd like!
gfer wrote:
The graph is labeled "manufacturing sector: real output."
Here's how (real) output is defined:
"Real output is nominal output of a country, adjusted for inflation. From Wikipedia: Output is the quantity of goods or services produced in a country in a given period of time. The given period of time is usually per year, and the quantity of goods and services (G&S) is valued in terms of $."
So I'm a bit at a loss here. Are we looking at different graphs?
I don't think so. From your posted article at the stlouisfed I clicked one of the 2 links to the us bureau of labor statistics to get the quote I posted. One is labeled "Source" and the other is "For further information"
Weezy wrote:
gfer wrote:Right now.
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/OUTMSThere's nothing wrong with American manufacturing per se. The primary reason that factory *jobs* have dwindled is automation, not off-shoring--and automation cannot be rewound.
Trumpkins don't look at data. They let their emotions guide their thoughts. And trump is masterful at manipulating people with sensitive emotions.
Damn right! Data is a tool of the elite!
hohoho wrote:
Former Delphi worker wrote:Screwdriver Plants and Robots assembling foreign made parts, is NOT "making stuff".
Actually I'm pretty sure it is...just not making stuff the way you'd like!
No it is not. Manufacturing requires high paid skilled machinists, welders, technicians, pipe-fitters, carpenters, engineers, accountants, managers etc.
