New book out in Japan, "Why Does Japanese Marathoning Suck Now?"

I thought Japan was pretty good in the marathon. Maybe they just have too high standards

Japanese marathon running, especially the men, is on the decline because they know they can't be the world's best. That's why the Japanese are turning ever more inward to the Ekiden and has lead to the devolution of their young males to that of Grass-Eaters.

rojo wrote:

http://japanrunningnews.blogspot.com/2017/01/why-does-japanese-marathoning-suck-now.html

In the book, the last 7 Japanese NR holders "talk about their eras, the current situation and its future outlook". It also includes their last 4 months of training leading up to their big races.

I'd love to read this book (but it's only in Japanese).

Seems kind of harsh to me. The Japanese did have 5 sub-2:10s last year. The US had zero.

Does someone want me to write one about the US? I know we had 2 in the top 6 at the Olympics but isn't the job of the press to overexaggerate everything?

Please don't write a book. I have to focus hard enough just to understand and overlook the typos and grammatical errors in a small LRC article already.

Focus is on Ekidens with best runners running for companies. Companies not interested in marathons.

This is what I have read.

All about money and culture... wrote:

Focus is on Ekidens with best runners running for companies. Companies not interested in marathons.

This is what I have read.

i would think that if any of the Japanese runners believe they can compete against the best, they would do it instead of just competing domestically. It is great in Japan that you can run for a company and have great ekidens.

Its evident that current top Japanese runners are not fast enough compared to the best from Africa. I would think that Japanese would try their best in olympics since it's a big deal there, but hard to compete against the best. Maybe since next olympics will be in Tokyo, it'll be diffeeent, but we'll see.

Read "The Way of Running."

Ebbs and flows. For a small country, still doing better than US. They're being unrealistic if they think they gonna run with Ethiopians who may not even be clean.

michael t smith wrote:

Read "The Way of Running."

Did you actually mean to type "The Way of the Runner: A Journey into the Fabled World of Japanese Running" written by Adharanand Finn who wrote "Running with the Kenyans"?

I do plan to read that book in the year 2017.

I think the translation of the Japanese title is a bit, um, colloquial and makes the Japanese sound harsher than it is.

I'd prefer something like, "What's Gone Wrong with Japanese Marathoning?"

Having had some firsthand experience with Japanese training methods, I think the basic problem is a neglect of speed-endurance training.

As soon as the E. Africans throw in a surge or two in a major championship race, the Japanese always seem to be the first to fall out of the lead pack.

The Japanese national record for the 1,500 is only 3:37. Galan Rupp, primarily a 5/10/marathon guy, has run a lot faster than that (3:34).

And I don't think it's any coincidence that the current Japanese record-holder in the 3,000 and 5,000, has been training under Alberto Salazar for years.

rojo wrote:

Does someone want me to write one about the US? I know we had 2 in the top 6 at the Olympics but isn't the job of the press to overexaggerate everything?

Yes. Put that Princeton education to work and write a book.

Mutsugoro wrote:

I think the translation of the Japanese title is a bit, um, colloquial and makes the Japanese sound harsher than it is.

I'd prefer something like, "What's Gone Wrong with Japanese Marathoning?"

Having had some firsthand experience with Japanese training methods, I think the basic problem is a neglect of speed-endurance training.

As soon as the E. Africans throw in a surge or two in a major championship race, the Japanese always seem to be the first to fall out of the lead pack.

The Japanese national record for the 1,500 is only 3:37. Galan Rupp, primarily a 5/10/marathon guy, has run a lot faster than that (3:34).

And I don't think it's any coincidence that the current Japanese record-holder in the 3,000 and 5,000, has been training under Alberto Salazar for years.

Are the Japanese training methods that bad for the longer distances (the book was focused on the marathon as I understand)? They do seem to have huge depth when you look at their races - those half marathons where you have several hundred finishers under 70 mins as an example. Takaoka ran 2h 6 mins 17 secs for the marathon and outside of African born runners, who has run faster on a legitimate marathon course? I guess the question might be why has Japan not produced more Takaokas since 2002 (ok maybe Takaoka ran more speed endurance training).

rising son wrote:

[quote]Mutsugoro wrote:

I guess the question might be why has Japan not produced more Takaokas since 2002 (ok maybe Takaoka ran more speed endurance training).

More advanced EPO testing?

Moo Goo wrote:

Ebbs and flows. For a small country, still doing better than US. They're being unrealistic if they think they gonna run with Ethiopians who may not even be clean.

Because Japanese athletes doping is out of the question.

Yeah, I think the question is more why Japan hasn't produced as many people matching the times of marathoners from a few years ago than why they aren't turning in the times that East Africans are. It would seem that something has changed and it would be very interesting to see what some of their former top guys see going on. We'll probably never see an English version of the book butafter a while it should be possible to get a summary.

The Japanese decline in the marathon is similar to the US. The times of the top US and Japanese runners suffer when they are not racing for the win. How many races have top non-E. Africans gone out with the pace the E. Africans set only to fall apart after mile 18 and struggle to finish? Top non-E. Africans are under a lot of pressure to stay with the pack as long as possible instead of running their own race. They think that if they do not run with the pack, they will not get invited to future big races. So, their times suffer. Just look at Ritz. He ran 2:07 basically as a time trial. When he tries to stay with the pack, he runs 2:10+.

How many Japanese athletes have been convicted for doping?

Maybe they are among of few clean ones and results they achieved are the best clean athletes can achieve?

On the other hand we have "natural wonders" from Africa dopped to the gills by their Italian doctors, trainers and managers (those who almost destroyed Giro d'Italia some 20 years ago) and then they run away in Africa and then suddenly we have "natural wonders" start emerging everywhere!

You see I work with Italians on daily basis and with Greeks there are no bigger cheaters in the whole world.

Some one remember Flavio Briattore manager of F1 team Benetton?

Well those guys invented wooden board which they plant under F1 car reducing allowed clearance from the ground (official measurement always take place after the race) and during the race it get grinded by asphalt and in the end of the race clearance was OK, but first half of the race was not and they gain advantage of lower clearance from the ground.

Interesting how they brain works?

Cheaters? No way just honest people!

rising son wrote:Takaoka ran 2h 6 mins 17 secs for the marathon and outside of African born runners, who has run faster on a legitimate marathon course? I guess the question might be why has Japan not produced more Takaokas since 2002 (ok maybe Takaoka ran more speed endurance training).

He had injury issues in high school, was not recruited by top-tier colleges, and was spared from the "Ekiden burn-out" syndrome that plagues so many promising runners in Japan. He was a low-mileage runner through his 20s, and increased his mileage significantly only after he switched to marathon at age 31.

In other words, his path was so much different from most of Japanese runners.