I'm running doubles at 30-35mpw

Different things work for different people. I'm glad you found something that seems to work for you.

If you're just running at 30-35mpw, running singles would be much more effective.

You don't need doubles, unless you're already doing big mileage.

Cellar_Door wrote:

If you're just running at 30-35mpw, running singles would be much more effective.

You don't need doubles, unless you're already doing big mileage.

I don't really care about being effective. I figure I probably won't LOSE fitness, even if I don't gain anything. Like I said, running singles, I was only able to get about 4 runs in a week for less than 20 miles. I figure 35 on doubles has got to be better than that.

I just started on Tuesday, so I've only done 3 morning runs so far, maybe I'll be in pain by the end of the week, but I think I'm thinking that I won't be

I think this goes against all conventional wisdom with respect to conditioning and development of a runner.

And nonetheless, I don't really think it is a bad idea. I mean, you need to accept the fact that this is not doing anything to develop your aerobic fitness; but that is only a part of the conversation.

What you are doing is strengthening the connective tissue and muscles involved in running and, thus, preparing yourself to train in the future. In short, this is a long term investment strategy that is giving you no short term payoff, but which might allow you to realize long term benefits that it sounds like you have thus far been unable to realize.

Sounds like you have a plan to stretch those 2.5 milers into longer runs over time. Good luck and good running.

Given your situation you're doing about the best thing you can.

lease wrote:

Different things work for different people. I'm glad you found something that seems to work for you.

A++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

This actually works very well.

It is how I improved my golf game. I went to the range and hit no more than 4 balls per day. Then I played one actual golf hole every other day.

Got my handicap down from a 50 to a 49 over 8 months. I have worked my way to playing 3 holes straight at a time, every other day. I can also hit as many as 12 balls at the range before my back starts hurting.

I figure in 15-20 years I will be ready for the big tour.

"good running chiropractor"... LOL

Cellar_Door wrote:

If you're just running at 30-35mpw, running singles would be much more effective.

You don't need doubles, unless you're already doing big mileage.

Serious question, at what weekly mileage does doubling start to make sense? I viewed as a way to sneak junk miles in, no harm no foul. But I'm still learning, as well..

It depends on what event you are training for. I think this is a decent rule of thumb, although I would probably go a little higher than this for each category, particularly the marathon.

https://runnersconnect.net/coach-corner/double-runs/

Cellar_Door wrote:

If you're just running at 30-35mpw, running singles would be much more effective.

You don't need doubles, unless you're already doing big mileage.

At least read his post. Would you seriously recommend 15-18 miles per week over 30-35?

OP - doubles are great at any mileage as long as you're getting in pretty close to whatever would be optimal in your "primary" run of the day. Keep it going, and hopefully you will be able to add more training volume and intensity as you get healthier.

Nice, thx for the link!

Smoove wrote:

I think this goes against all conventional wisdom with respect to conditioning and development of a runner.

And nonetheless, I don't really think it is a bad idea. I mean, you need to accept the fact that this is not doing anything to develop your aerobic fitness; but that is only a part of the conversation.

What you are doing is strengthening the connective tissue and muscles involved in running and, thus, preparing yourself to train in the future. In short, this is a long term investment strategy that is giving you no short term payoff, but which might allow you to realize long term benefits that it sounds like you have thus far been unable to realize.

Sounds like you have a plan to stretch those 2.5 milers into longer runs over time. Good luck and good running.

These are pretty much my thoughts. I'll give it 2 weeks to make sure my knee is taking it and then increase my evening runs to 3 miles. Then 2 more weeks and increase the morning to 3 miles and just keep increasing that way. Although, I need to get workouts in there somewhere

I started doubling 3 times a week at 60ish miles. It has kept me injury free and has let me increase mileage. This week I am on track for 85 doubling 4x week.. Has added benefit of getting me leaner, when I ran 10 miles in the morning I would want to eat all day a work. If I run 4-8 or 8-4 on a workday I dont want to overeat and be bloated for the evening run, with adding 2miles a day

I think it's a solid plan. Obviously not ideal at 35mpw but if its working its working. And like someone else said, it's getting your body used to doubling and used to the mileage, even if the aerobic benefits aren't huge.

You said your plan is to up evening runs to 3 miles after 2 weeks then 2 weeks later up your morning runs to 3 miles, etc etc. I think you'd be better off keeping the short run at 2.5-3 miles and trying to increase the other run as much as you can. Obviously if injury comes back do what you need to, but increasing one of the runs will help you get fitter as you keep the other run short.

you're on the right track. Read chapter 1 of this book for the science behind frequent, low mileage runs. The sweet spot seems to be between 30-45 mins per run. that will maximize testosterone and human growth hormone and minimize CRP and cortisol.

https://www.amazon.com/Spiked-Ready-Run-Steve-Sherer/dp/1935125451/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1483030972&sr=8-1&keywords=spiked+up+ready+to+run

ThatAverageRunner wrote:

I think it's a solid plan. Obviously not ideal at 35mpw but if its working its working. And like someone else said, it's getting your body used to doubling and used to the mileage, even if the aerobic benefits aren't huge.

You said your plan is to up evening runs to 3 miles after 2 weeks then 2 weeks later up your morning runs to 3 miles, etc etc. I think you'd be better off keeping the short run at 2.5-3 miles and trying to increase the other run as much as you can. Obviously if injury comes back do what you need to, but increasing one of the runs will help you get fitter as you keep the other run short.

I just feel like 2.5 miles is too short. Every time I go out, I'm tempted to go farther and I have to convince myself not to. I'd like to get both runs to at least 3.5 or 4 miles. I'll probably cap the morning run at 4 miles and try to get the evening runs to 6 or 8 or so.

Also, these short doubles must be doing something. I bought a garmin vivoactive hr for myself for chritmas. It does 24 hour heart rate monitoring. I've had it less than a week, so I don't have tons of back data, but my resting heart rate has steadily gone up from 35 to 48 over that week

Any kind of consensus on pace. The only race I've done was in September, I ran 40:40 in a hilly 10k. If I had to estimate my current fitness, it's probably low 18 5k and 38 10k, but I'm still getting "beginners gains." Every month I'm faster by enough for me to notice.

6:00 feels like somewhere between 5k and 10k pace

6:30 feels like a race pace, but I could probably hold it over 10+ miles

7:00 feels fast but I could probably hold it almost indefinitely. Marathon pace?

8:00 feels like I'm just slogging along not trying

I try for my designated easy runs to be about 7:45

Jimmy21 wrote:

I've had it less than a week, so I don't have tons of back data, but my resting heart rate has steadily gone up from 35 to 48 over that week

A - less than a week of data likely means nothing. B - your resting heart rate going up is not typically a positive sign of adaptaion; it is generally a sign of stress. C - resting heart rate really doesn't mean much all things considered. It is just background noise to some extent. As you get fitter it should come down but the actual number is quite variable.

A good rule of thumb is to put your watch away on easy distance runs and use a subjective test to make sure you're not pushing too hard. The test I use is that I should be able to comfortably maintain a conversation with another person for the entirety of the run. If you find that you can only get out a sentence or two at a time, but cannot maintain a conversation, you are going too hard.