No 800 for Wariner

I'd like to be a fly on the wall when he explains to Mark Everett that you can't run 1:43 unless you run 120 miles a week....

The American "distance runner" ranked highest by the IAAF is Jearl Miles-Clark, at #4 in the world in the 800. I'll bet she hasn't had a single 20 mile week in her life. Both winners of the US Olympic Trials 800, run LESS THAN 30 miles per week, as does Maria Mutola.

This is not to say that there are not 800 runners running much more than 30 mpw, but not if you're a sprinter. In fact, this talk about mileage is one main reason why sprinters generally don't want to have anything to do with 800.

A contemporary om EM was Harold Schmidt, a West German. If I rememer correctly, and I don't remember the year, he was world top 10 ranked in the 400m, 400mh, and the 800m, running along the lines of sub 45, 48 very low or perhaps 47 high, and sub 1:45. All in all not too shabby. Several years Moses openned a season w/ an 800m, running about 1:48 I believe.

We had a freshman in high school who ran the 400m in :50 flat. Since he was a short white dude we convinced him to join us on our 4x800m team. With only sprint training he ran 2:09 splitting like 60/70. I on the other hand had :56 400m speed off a relay start yet ran 2:04 in the 800m. My freshman year I ran 2:09 in the 800m off of :59 400m speed. Moral of the story? The same training a runner would use to make themselves a good 800m runner would take away from his sprint speed and vice versa. A :43-44 second 400m runner would cease to be a :43-44 second 400m runner once he started training for the 800m. Why? The 800m isn't just "one more lap". It's TWICE his usual race distance. That's a long way. VERY different training needs. Peace out.

try being an olympic champion if you try everything once ;)

What kinda milage was Kipketer puting in?

so former hs runner is trying to compare Olympic Champions to 50 second hs quater milers... there is a huge difference in talent levels and abilities... if you don't think that guys like Wariner, and MJ could run under 1:48 for 800 (and probably much faster) then you are out of your mind, they could easily stride 55 and then kick, think about this with a level head for a second. if you've ever read "Slaying the Dragon" you would see that MJ did a lot of longer (300-500) repeats for strength, what do 1/2 milers do for speed/strength? even though wariner is a different runner who doesn't have as much leg speed as MJ he has the same coach and is probably doing similar things for strength.

I would argue that. JJ is very strength oriented in the off season. I would imagine that Joetta, JMC, Hazel and MJ Harrellson are putting greater than 20 miles/wk in their base period.

Wariner ran 20.52 for 200m at the UTA meet this afternoon. 4th fastest time in the world this year and he made it look like a jog.

Former HS runner you are 100 per cent wrong.

you haven't read the "Mr. Renato Canova: Could You Please Answer a Question About Effective Ways to Improve the Lactate Threshold?" thread, have you, or any of the other well scripted dialogues within a thread? it has been clearly explained that distance running does not slow you down as a srpinter, or visa versa. the reason distance runners seem to lose basic foot speed is that they stop training the fast twitch fibers in their legs.

Moses was afraid to seriously run anything other than the 400H because he knew he could not run with the best in the world in the 400 or 800. He was afraid that people would realize that he was simply domininating an event that was much less competitive than the 400 and the 800 and that he was not as good as people gave him credit for.

The Chick wrote:

Wariner ran 20.52 for 200m at the UTA meet this afternoon. 4th fastest time in the world this year and he made it look like a jog.

I should hope so too after the things he's been saying this week. Not to mention the fact that he had a near hurricane behind him

This obsession with having 400-meter stars run 800s has got to end. First of all, try to realzie that Wariner, like about 80 percent of 400-meter guys, is more of a 400/200 guy than a 400/800 guy. Secondly, why would you want a 44.00 guy who's 21 and still improving to run 800s anyway? You don't just pop into an 800.

whateva wrote:

Lydiard trained some short/mid-distance runners who did 120+ mpw, and I think some of them ended up winning medals at the Olympics.

when you are talking about Peter Snell you are wrong, Snell did about 70-80mpw during base phase, only at the end of his career he did several 100mile weeks in a row.

tach44444 wrote:

Former HS runner you are 100 per cent wrong.

you haven't read the "Mr. Renato Canova: Could You Please Answer a Question About Effective Ways to Improve the Lactate Threshold?" thread, have you, or any of the other well scripted dialogues within a thread? it has been clearly explained that distance running does not slow you down as a srpinter, or visa versa. the reason distance runners seem to lose basic foot speed is that they stop training the fast twitch fibers in their legs.

When you talk about sprinting this way, you've got it wrong. As Renato has pointed out with respect to Geb and the Ethiopians, some sprinting can make distance runners faster, but the converse is NOT true.

There is aerobic training in sprinting. For me training as a 200 runner early and 800 later (in 10.5 100m shape), the training through the year might be 80% aerobic. But there's a difference. The aerobic training for sprinting is what is known as extensive tempo (intervals at 70-75% speed with rest:recovery about 1:4). If you can run 21 for 200, 10 X 200 in 30 with 2 minutes rest is recovery, and you do all-out sprinting, at speed, the next day. But the rest period is such that you do not accumulate much lactate and tire out your slow twitch fibers. This is important, because if your ST fibers tire and you start running FT fibers slow, it causes the nervous system to turn over slow(er) which makes for "long slow runners." Snell might find this an advantage in training for a marathon, but for somebody with 10-point/20-point speed, this is DEADLY. If you go to charliefrancis.com and search for "tempo," you'll find a lot about this.

Clyde Hart has his 400 runners go for 20 minutes once a week, but that's it. Michael Johnson didn't even jog warmups during the season; Hart has what he calls ins-and-outs, which are striding warmups (run the straight, walk, the curve for 8 laps and finish with a 26 second 200).

Old School wrote:

Your Exactly Right:

Edwin Moses & David Patrick (400m Hurdlers) could easily have extended their careers a few more years if they would have moved up and/or stayed with the 800.

David Patrick was an inbetween runner - not fast enough to run the 400, not enough endurance to run the 800. he ran well in both the 400h and 800.

did make the world champs final in '83 @ 800m:

one of the top 20 performers all time in the 400h.

fmr runner wrote:

Let him focus on the 200/400. Why does every lanky white guy NEED to be a distance runner?

Because only distance runners are REAL runners.

Do Miles-Clark, etc run double days (running twice per day) ever or do they just do one run/session per day?

LeBron James should "move up" to the high jump, Mike Vick should "move up" to the 100, Orlando Pace should "move up" to the shot put, because those guys aren't "real athletes" either. It's not good enough to be dominant in your own event, you have to be a distance runner before it really counts.

RFXCrunner obviously runs a 20 min 5k and thinks that milage has got to be the answer now that he has adopted a 100mpw and PR'd from his previously blazing 23 min blazer....Get a clue and don't talk about the 8 unless you've got some experience or even success for that matter in it.