Who wins at 400--Prime El G or Prime Bekele?

BullSlacker wrote:

Loper wrote:

12:37 to 12:50.

Hmmmmmm....even a moron can see there is a difference.

12:50 doesn't represent El G's 5000m ability. He never ran a WR attempt or any really fast times.

In the 2003 WC he was narrowly beaten on the line by Kipchoge who took El G by surprise (only worried about Bekele). He ran 12:53 and that was a championship. El G constantly mixed with 12:40 guys. He is on record as saying he thinks he could have a crack at the 5k WR (I think it was 12:39 at the time) and El G got very, very close or bettered all the WRs he tried for.

Finally, 12:50 was his first attempt at a serious 5k. It is reasonable to think that with a few more fast 5ks he could better that time.

I believe that with some 5k emphasis "prime" El G could have cracked 12:40.

And if it were somehow done with Bekele in the race (as a WR attempt/time trial) the world record would be lower than 12:37.

A post-Athens time trial in perfect conditions may have been the only realistic shot at it given El G's plans to retire. However, I'd assume El G's Championship 1500m training (w/ the 5k as second focus) would not have put him in optimal 5k WR ability. Thoughts?

husein wrote:

Oh good lord, not even remotely close.

ElG - 46

Bekele - 49

Yes, not close over 400. But No regarding the times you give.

I highly doubt EL G goes u dear 48.0 in an open 400, with Bekele maybe just cracking 50 flat.

Over 5000m it would probably be 3-2 in a 5 race competition when both at their peaks, but I don't think EL G could challenge Bekele's 12:37 given the same pacing and amount of drafting.

However it's all moot because EL was one of the most obviously doped (at the very least EPO) athletes of that era and I doubt anyone can go sub 12:45 without some 'assistance' , which makes me question Bekele also.

El G by 15m.

TrackBot! Compare Kenenisa Bekele vs Hicham El Guerrouj

Head-to-head record between Kenenisa Bekele (left) and Hicham El Guerrouj (right):

WC Saint-Denis 2003-08-31: 5000 m: 12:53.12 (3) VS 12:52.83 (2)

OG Athína 2004-08-28: 5000 m: 13:14.59 (2) VS 13:14.39 (1)

Kenenisa "DEVASTATED" Bekele total wins: 0

Hicham "MF" El Guerrouj total wins: 2

I am a bot. Info: habs.sdf.org/trackbot

TrackBot! Compare Hicham El Gerrouj vs. Noureddine Morceli.

Could not find / disambiguate Hicham El Gerrouj

I am a bot. Info: habs.sdf.org/trackbot

TrackBot! Compare Hicham El Guerrouj vs. Noureddine Morceli.

Head-to-head record between Hicham El Guerrouj (left) and Noureddine Morceli (right):

WC Göteborg 1995-08-13: 1500 m: 3:35.28 (2) VS 3:33.73 (1)

WK Zürich 1995-08-16: One Mile: 3:48.69 (2) VS 3:45.19 (1)

OG Atlanta GA 1996-08-03: 1500 m: 3:40.75 (12) VS 3:35.78 (1)

Gaz Paris 1997-06-25: 1500 m: 3:31.87 (1) VS 3:33.98 (2)

WC Athína 1997-08-06: 1500 m: 3:35.83 (1) VS 3:37.37 (4)

WK Zürich 1997-08-13: 1500 m: 3:28.91 (1) VS 3:30.23 (4)

WK Zürich 1999-08-11: 1500 m: 3:28.57 (1) VS 3:32.19 (7)

WC Sevilla 1999-08-24: 1500 m: 3:27.65 (1) VS DNF (0)

Hicham "MF" El Guerrouj total wins: 5

Noureddine "DEVASTATED" Morceli total wins: 3

I am a bot. Info: habs.sdf.org/trackbot

Add this one for El G too.

Gebre Hi Wot? wrote:

Loper wrote:

Who cares what Hicham said? I am much smarter than either of you. Hicham did not get the 3000m record. There was no way he was going to get the 5000m recorded.

Bekele couldn't get the 3k record so by your logic he couldn't beat Komen's 5000 time.

Not really .. Hicham was primarily a 1500m guy .. so if he couldn't beat women at 3000m, he's very likely further away at 5000m.

Bekele has shown himself to be better over longer races .. and he wasn't a great 1500m runner (based on actual times). As the race got shorter, he fell further off the top times.

This stuff really shouldn't need to be explained.

i have a vial of El G's blood from 1998 in my refrigerator at home from my dad who was good friends with Hicham back in Morocco

should we test it?

honest questions wrote:

i have a vial of El G's blood from 1998 in my refrigerator at home from my dad who was good friends with Hicham back in Morocco

should we test it?

No you should inject it 💉

wtfunny wrote:

Gebre Hi Wot? wrote:

Bekele couldn't get the 3k record so by your logic he couldn't beat Komen's 5000 time.

Not really .. Hicham was primarily a 1500m guy .. so if he couldn't beat women at 3000m, he's very likely further away at 5000m.

Bekele has shown himself to be better over longer races .. and he wasn't a great 1500m runner (based on actual times). As the race got shorter, he fell further off the top times.

This stuff really shouldn't need to be explained.

Except of course Hicham beat Bekele EVERY TIME they raced over 5.

ElGsplainer wrote:

wtfunny wrote:

Not really .. Hicham was primarily a 1500m guy .. so if he couldn't beat women at 3000m, he's very likely further away at 5000m.

Bekele has shown himself to be better over longer races .. and he wasn't a great 1500m runner (based on actual times). As the race got shorter, he fell further off the top times.

This stuff really shouldn't need to be explained.

Except of course Hicham beat Bekele EVERY TIME they raced over 5.

Every time being both times, yes,

I've pointed that out here before.

But the discussion above was based on a very singular piece of logic that doesn't hold up. That's all I was responding to. There may be myriad other reasons why or why not El G might have beaten KB. Those aren't pertinent to my comment.

George_213 wrote:

And there had been plenty of time for recovery between the two events. El G was a better racer in 5000m, while Bekele a time trialer.

Have you tried it at their pace!

Bit of an oversimplification to say Bekele was a time trialer he did Lagat on a sprint. He should have pushed the pace more with El G though I don't think Geb would have let the pace slow

stank wrote:Assuming Prime Bekele as in Prime on the track Bekele. Who wins in a 400, no flying start? For the record, I think El G totally takes KB any distance 1000-2000 meters, after that I'm not so sure.

line of fit for their primes, offering only to nearest 0.25s for 400 & 800 :

hicham at his 1500 prime of '98 ( maybe close to this in '99 & perhaps even better in '02 ) ~

47.25

1'42.50

2'11.34

3'25.79

4'42.69

7'21.58

kennster ~

51.25

1'47.50

3'30.06

4'45.27

7'18.88

12'34.50

26'11.49

his claim of 11-flat are utter hogwash unless it was downhill with tsunami behind him

how does a 11-flat guy with claim to greatest ever endurance of all-time only have 1'48 speed ??? :

i'd guestimate his 100m basic ( as calculator doesn't work for below 400 ) at ~ 12-flat

it's likely hicham wouda thrashed him over 400 by 4s !!! & by 5s !!! over 800 & still big gap of ~ 4s at 1500, but by 3k, kennster's far superior endurance pays off & he woud be nearly 3s quicker

Apart from NOT being quicker of course.

El G's two defeats of Bekele tell all.

He was superior up to 5k at least.

wtfunny wrote:

Bekele has shown himself to be better over longer races .. and he wasn't a great 1500m runner (based on actual times). As the race got shorter, he fell further off the top times.

This stuff really shouldn't need to be explained.

Apparently, it does have to be explained because you are wrong. Bekele was a great 1500m runner. He was a 3:29.xx type of guy.

duudjx wrote:

wtfunny wrote:

Bekele has shown himself to be better over longer races .. and he wasn't a great 1500m runner (based on actual times). As the race got shorter, he fell further off the top times.

This stuff really shouldn't need to be explained.

Apparently, it does have to be explained because you are wrong. Bekele was a great 1500m runner. He was a 3:29.xx type of guy.

Your right it does have to be explained. He was a 3:31 type runner and never won anything at 1500m.