Top American's Share Their Hardest Workouts Ahead Of NYC: And They Are Largely Ridiculous

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  • What In The World?
    3 years ago 11/05/2016 7:08pm CDT
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    http://www.runnersworld.com/new-york-city-marathon/before-new-york-elites-dish-on-the-hardest-workouts-they-did

    I know it's in Runner's World so maybe something is lost in translation, but these key workouts sound like virtually all of them are training for a half-marathon, not an actual marathon.

    Majority are doing 8-10 miles total around marathon pace or slightly faster and breaking that up into 2-3 intervals and adding in another 5-12 of much easier running. A few are doing 15-16 mile tempos. Ritz did about 15 at marathon pace. Neely Spence didn't give specifics.

    For the most part is this how American's prepare for the marathon?
  • Rodgers Rep
    3 years ago 11/05/2016 7:14pm CDT
    re: What In The World?
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    Bill Rodgers did OK with this type of training and his times would still win the odd year at Boston or NY.
  • Not the same
    3 years ago 11/05/2016 7:24pm CDT
    re: Rodgers Rep
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    Rodgers raced 40+ times/year and ran 140 mpw. He got marathon spec work in the races.
  • fred
    registered
    3 years ago 11/05/2016 7:33pm CDT
    re: What In The World?
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    They are afraid of overtraining and blowing up like Puskedra.

    I don't know what Vail did this time around but he got injured training for the trials
  • fred
    registered
    3 years ago 11/05/2016 7:40pm CDT
    re: fred
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    What's wrong with this for Leon:

    "10 miles
    10K at marathon pace
    1 mile easy
    2 miles at marathon pace or faster
    1 mile easy
    1 mile at marathon pace
    Cool down
    A total of 24 miles, finishing at 5:00-minute mile pace "
  • Spec Ops
    3 years ago 11/05/2016 7:49pm CDT
    re: Not the same
    Forum Index
    Not the same wrote:

    Rodgers raced 40+ times/year and ran 140 mpw. He got marathon spec work in the races.

    That ain't marathon spec work.
  • Whipp
    3 years ago 11/05/2016 8:08pm CDT
    re: Spec Ops
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    They were asked for their hardest workout.

    It could very well be that they suffered the most on those fast sessions or were tired going into the long/slow sessions. The 17M at Marathon Pace, or 5x5k sessions might not have felt the hardest. I would hope in fact, that the marathon pace workouts didn't feel harder.
  • asdfasdfa
    3 years ago 11/05/2016 8:10pm CDT
    re: Not the same
    Forum Index
    Not the same wrote:

    Rodgers raced 40+ times/year and ran 140 mpw. He got marathon spec work in the races.

    We are given 1 workout with no context. We have no idea what is going on a around these workouts. They all seem pretty standard where you are getting in decent mileage at around HM to MP. I would have thought Ritzs paces would have been faster (i.e. is he training for a 2:09 marathon or a 2:07 one?) and I am not sure about Craig Leons 24 mile run ( ~10 miles a mp) 2 weeks before the race but he obviously knows how he recovers from efforts like that more than any of us.

    The only one I dont' really get is Esther Atkins running 23 miles with 17 at 6:15 when she is hoping to run a 2:30/2:32 marathon. Seems like that is either ~30s too fast or ~30s too slow.
  • But seriously
    3 years ago 11/05/2016 8:33pm CDT
    re: Spec Ops
    Forum Index
    Spec Ops wrote:

    Not the same wrote:

    Rodgers raced 40+ times/year and ran 140 mpw. He got marathon spec work in the races.

    That ain't marathon spec work.


    I don't think you've read Rodgers training then. Countless 10 mile-20 mile races at ~5:00/mile.
  • counting big numbers
    3 years ago 11/05/2016 8:50pm CDT
    re: But seriously
    Forum Index
    But seriously wrote:

    Spec Ops wrote:

    Not the same wrote:

    Rodgers raced 40+ times/year and ran 140 mpw. He got marathon spec work in the races.

    That ain't marathon spec work.


    I don't think you've read Rodgers training then. Countless 10 mile-20 mile races at ~5:00/mile.


    Rodgers raced 23 times in 75
  • jjjjjj
    3 years ago 11/05/2016 9:17pm CDT
    re: What In The World?
    Forum Index
    I agree, because I'd like to see them not doing, say, 4M at race pace, steady for a long way, and then 4M at race pace, but rather 10-12 miles at a decent pace and then 10-13 miles at marathon pace, or maybe just a 12-15M tempo at marathon pace. The former are the kind of runs that tell me I am in marathon shape. These runners are way, way better than me, but they tend to underperform at the marathon relative to their shorter distance pr's.
  • disgraceful_admin
    3 years ago 11/05/2016 9:34pm CDT
    re: What In The World?
    Forum Index
    What In The World? wrote:

    http://www.runnersworld.com/new-york-city-marathon/before-new-york-elites-dish-on-the-hardest-workouts-they-did

    I know it's in Runner's World so maybe something is lost in translation, but these key workouts sound like virtually all of them are training for a half-marathon, not an actual marathon.

    Majority are doing 8-10 miles total around marathon pace or slightly faster and breaking that up into 2-3 intervals and adding in another 5-12 of much easier running. A few are doing 15-16 mile tempos. Ritz did about 15 at marathon pace. Neely Spence didn't give specifics.

    For the most part is this how American's prepare for the marathon?

    "When I do my one long run a week, usually about a 15 miler, I do it fairly fast, usually between 5:20 and 5:40 pace. My tempo runs, generally, depending on the surface, are 4:50 on hilly grass and 4:25-4:30 on track or flat roads. "

    http://www.milesplit.com/articles/97/fastprepscom-interview-with-dathan-ritzenhein

    In high school 5 mile tempo at 4:30, 15 mile long run at 5:20. Now 15 miles alternating 4:55 and 5:05

    Say what you will, they know what they are doing. If you know better, why don't you go race them and see how that goes?
  • Tempo Run Champ
    3 years ago 11/05/2016 9:43pm CDT
    re: disgraceful_admin
    Forum Index
    BS he did his tempos at 4:25 pace. His 2mi PR was 8:50. That's 4:25 pace right there!
  • Armchair Marathoner
    3 years ago 11/05/2016 9:49pm CDT
    re: disgraceful_admin
    Forum Index
    disgraceful_admin wrote:



    Say what you will, they know what they are doing. If you know better, why don't you go race them and see how that goes?


    See, it doesn't work like that. It's relative to ability.

    Do you think Snell challenged Lydiard to a race every time he doubted his training?
  • rjm33
    registered
    3 years ago 11/05/2016 10:16pm CDT
    re: Armchair Marathoner
    Forum Index
    Armchair Marathoner wrote:

    disgraceful_admin wrote:



    Say what you will, they know what they are doing. If you know better, why don't you go race them and see how that goes?


    See, it doesn't work like that. It's relative to ability.

    Do you think Snell challenged Lydiard to a race every time he doubted his training?


    Why not?
    Herb Elliot used to challenge coach Percy Cerutty.

    https://tonireavis.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/percy-cerutty-with-herb-elliott.jpg?w=300&h=223

    http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/9AQAAOSw1vlUuncB/s-l300.jpg

    How did that work out for Mr. Fancy Pants Herb Elliot?
    Hmmm?

    It was a complete disaster.
    OK?
  • Ken Ya
    3 years ago 11/06/2016 4:41am CST
    re: What In The World?
    Forum Index
    Only two elements are necessary to reach one's potential in the marathon.

    1. "Miles make champions"
    2. Long, fast aerobic runs over hilly terrain
  • malmo
    registered
    3 years ago 11/06/2016 5:19am CST
    re: What In The World?
    Forum Index
    Now let me get this straight. Some anonymous yahoo on an internet message board thinks he knows marathon training and professional marathoners don't?
  • Apostrophe Crime's
    3 years ago 11/06/2016 5:24am CST
    re: What In The World?
    Forum Index
    Top American's what share their hardest workout?
  • p.n.
    3 years ago 11/06/2016 5:34am CST
    re: Apostrophe Crime's
    Forum Index
    Apostrophe Crime's wrote:

    Top American's what share their hardest workout?

    A lost cause, but well played natheless.
  • pathfinder
    registered
    3 years ago 11/06/2016 8:03am CST
    re: Armchair Marathoner
    Forum Index
    Armchair Marathoner wrote:

    disgraceful_admin wrote:



    Say what you will, they know what they are doing. If you know better, why don't you go race them and see how that goes?


    See, it doesn't work like that. It's relative to ability.

    Do you think Snell challenged Lydiard to a race every time he doubted his training?


    And all the armchair marathoners here know their exact ability?