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    • What In The World?
      • Top American's Share Their Hardest Workouts Ahead Of NYC: And They Are Largely Ridiculous 11/5/2016 7:08PM
      • What In The World?
      • http://www.runnersworld.com/ne...s-they-did

        I know it's in Runner's World so maybe something is lost in translation, but these key workouts sound like virtually all of them are training for a half-marathon, not an actual marathon.

        Majority are doing 8-10 miles total around marathon pace or slightly faster and breaking that up into 2-3 intervals and adding in another 5-12 of much easier running. A few are doing 15-16 mile tempos. Ritz did about 15 at marathon pace. Neely Spence didn't give specifics.

        For the most part is this how American's prepare for the marathon?
    • Rodgers Rep
      • RE: Top American's Share Their Hardest Workouts Ahead Of NYC: And They Are Largely Ridiculous 11/5/2016 7:14PM - in reply to What In The World?
      • Rodgers Rep
      • Bill Rodgers did OK with this type of training and his times would still win the odd year at Boston or NY.
    • Not the same
      • RE: Top American's Share Their Hardest Workouts Ahead Of NYC: And They Are Largely Ridiculous 11/5/2016 7:24PM - in reply to Rodgers Rep
      • Not the same
      • Rodgers raced 40+ times/year and ran 140 mpw. He got marathon spec work in the races.
    • fred
      registered
      • RE: Top American's Share Their Hardest Workouts Ahead Of NYC: And They Are Largely Ridiculous 11/5/2016 7:33PM - in reply to What In The World?
      • fred
        registered
      • They are afraid of overtraining and blowing up like Puskedra.

        I don't know what Vail did this time around but he got injured training for the trials
    • fred
      registered
      • RE: Top American's Share Their Hardest Workouts Ahead Of NYC: And They Are Largely Ridiculous 11/5/2016 7:40PM - in reply to fred
      • fred
        registered
      • What's wrong with this for Leon:

        "10 miles
        10K at marathon pace
        1 mile easy
        2 miles at marathon pace or faster
        1 mile easy
        1 mile at marathon pace
        Cool down
        A total of 24 miles, finishing at 5:00-minute mile pace "
    • Spec Ops
      • RE: Top American's Share Their Hardest Workouts Ahead Of NYC: And They Are Largely Ridiculous 11/5/2016 7:49PM - in reply to Not the same
      • Spec Ops
      • Not the same wrote:
        Rodgers raced 40+ times/year and ran 140 mpw. He got marathon spec work in the races.
        That ain't marathon spec work.
    • Whipp
      • RE: Top American's Share Their Hardest Workouts Ahead Of NYC: And They Are Largely Ridiculous 11/5/2016 8:08PM - in reply to Spec Ops
      • Whipp
      • They were asked for their hardest workout.

        It could very well be that they suffered the most on those fast sessions or were tired going into the long/slow sessions. The 17M at Marathon Pace, or 5x5k sessions might not have felt the hardest. I would hope in fact, that the marathon pace workouts didn't feel harder.
    • asdfasdfa
      • RE: Top American's Share Their Hardest Workouts Ahead Of NYC: And They Are Largely Ridiculous 11/5/2016 8:10PM - in reply to Not the same
      • asdfasdfa
      • Not the same wrote:
        Rodgers raced 40+ times/year and ran 140 mpw. He got marathon spec work in the races.
        We are given 1 workout with no context. We have no idea what is going on a around these workouts. They all seem pretty standard where you are getting in decent mileage at around HM to MP. I would have thought Ritzs paces would have been faster (i.e. is he training for a 2:09 marathon or a 2:07 one?) and I am not sure about Craig Leons 24 mile run ( ~10 miles a mp) 2 weeks before the race but he obviously knows how he recovers from efforts like that more than any of us.

        The only one I dont' really get is Esther Atkins running 23 miles with 17 at 6:15 when she is hoping to run a 2:30/2:32 marathon. Seems like that is either ~30s too fast or ~30s too slow.
    • But seriously
      • RE: Top American's Share Their Hardest Workouts Ahead Of NYC: And They Are Largely Ridiculous 11/5/2016 8:33PM - in reply to Spec Ops
      • But seriously
      • Spec Ops wrote:
        Not the same wrote:
        Rodgers raced 40+ times/year and ran 140 mpw. He got marathon spec work in the races.
        That ain't marathon spec work.
        I don't think you've read Rodgers training then. Countless 10 mile-20 mile races at ~5:00/mile.
    • counting big numbers
      • RE: Top American's Share Their Hardest Workouts Ahead Of NYC: And They Are Largely Ridiculous 11/5/2016 8:50PM - in reply to But seriously
      • counting big numbers
      • But seriously wrote:
        Spec Ops wrote:
        Not the same wrote:
        Rodgers raced 40+ times/year and ran 140 mpw. He got marathon spec work in the races.
        That ain't marathon spec work.
        I don't think you've read Rodgers training then. Countless 10 mile-20 mile races at ~5:00/mile.
        Rodgers raced 23 times in 75
    • jjjjjj
      • RE: Top American's Share Their Hardest Workouts Ahead Of NYC: And They Are Largely Ridiculous 11/5/2016 9:17PM - in reply to What In The World?
      • jjjjjj
      • I agree, because I'd like to see them not doing, say, 4M at race pace, steady for a long way, and then 4M at race pace, but rather 10-12 miles at a decent pace and then 10-13 miles at marathon pace, or maybe just a 12-15M tempo at marathon pace. The former are the kind of runs that tell me I am in marathon shape. These runners are way, way better than me, but they tend to underperform at the marathon relative to their shorter distance pr's.
    • disgraceful_admin
      • RE: Top American's Share Their Hardest Workouts Ahead Of NYC: And They Are Largely Ridiculous 11/5/2016 9:34PM - in reply to What In The World?
      • disgraceful_admin
      • What In The World? wrote:
        http://www.runnersworld.com/ne...s-they-did

        I know it's in Runner's World so maybe something is lost in translation, but these key workouts sound like virtually all of them are training for a half-marathon, not an actual marathon.

        Majority are doing 8-10 miles total around marathon pace or slightly faster and breaking that up into 2-3 intervals and adding in another 5-12 of much easier running. A few are doing 15-16 mile tempos. Ritz did about 15 at marathon pace. Neely Spence didn't give specifics.

        For the most part is this how American's prepare for the marathon?
        "When I do my one long run a week, usually about a 15 miler, I do it fairly fast, usually between 5:20 and 5:40 pace. My tempo runs, generally, depending on the surface, are 4:50 on hilly grass and 4:25-4:30 on track or flat roads. "

        http://www.milesplit.com/artic...ritzenhein

        In high school 5 mile tempo at 4:30, 15 mile long run at 5:20. Now 15 miles alternating 4:55 and 5:05

        Say what you will, they know what they are doing. If you know better, why don't you go race them and see how that goes?
    • Tempo Run Champ
      • RE: Top American's Share Their Hardest Workouts Ahead Of NYC: And They Are Largely Ridiculous 11/5/2016 9:43PM - in reply to disgraceful_admin
      • Tempo Run Champ
      • BS he did his tempos at 4:25 pace. His 2mi PR was 8:50. That's 4:25 pace right there!
    • Armchair Marathoner
      • RE: Top American's Share Their Hardest Workouts Ahead Of NYC: And They Are Largely Ridiculous 11/5/2016 9:49PM - in reply to disgraceful_admin
      • Armchair Marathoner
      • disgraceful_admin wrote:


        Say what you will, they know what they are doing. If you know better, why don't you go race them and see how that goes?
        See, it doesn't work like that. It's relative to ability.

        Do you think Snell challenged Lydiard to a race every time he doubted his training?
    • Ken Ya
      • RE: Top American's Share Their Hardest Workouts Ahead Of NYC: And They Are Largely Ridiculous 11/6/2016 4:41AM - in reply to What In The World?
      • Ken Ya
      • Only two elements are necessary to reach one's potential in the marathon.

        1. "Miles make champions"
        2. Long, fast aerobic runs over hilly terrain
    • malmo
      registered
      • RE: Top American's Share Their Hardest Workouts Ahead Of NYC: And They Are Largely Ridiculous 11/6/2016 5:19AM - in reply to What In The World?
      • malmo
        registered
      • Now let me get this straight. Some anonymous yahoo on an internet message board thinks he knows marathon training and professional marathoners don't?
    • Apostrophe Crime's
      • RE: Top American's Share Their Hardest Workouts Ahead Of NYC: And They Are Largely Ridiculous 11/6/2016 5:24AM - in reply to What In The World?
      • Apostrophe Crime's
      • Top American's what share their hardest workout?
    • p.n.
      • RE: Top Americans Share Their Hardest Workouts Ahead Of NYC: And They Are Largely Ridiculous 11/6/2016 5:34AM - in reply to Apostrophe Crime's
      • p.n.
      • Apostrophe Crime's wrote:
        Top American's what share their hardest workout?
        A lost cause, but well played natheless.
    • pathfinder
      registered
      • RE: Top American's Share Their Hardest Workouts Ahead Of NYC: And They Are Largely Ridiculous 11/6/2016 8:03AM - in reply to Armchair Marathoner
      • pathfinder
        registered
      • Armchair Marathoner wrote:
        disgraceful_admin wrote:


        Say what you will, they know what they are doing. If you know better, why don't you go race them and see how that goes?
        See, it doesn't work like that. It's relative to ability.

        Do you think Snell challenged Lydiard to a race every time he doubted his training?
        And all the armchair marathoners here know their exact ability?