How good is Mo Farah compared to the all-time greats?

That's right, like I said haha I could go into it deeper and show how Bekele was clearly better, and off much faster paces, Mo just isn't at that level.

Great comparison Sam. Bekele does seem faster off those numbers, but Farah is very close. Off a slower pace Farah closed in the same time as Bekele. Off a much slower pace he closed about 1 second faster. Off the same pace, he closed 0.6 slower. Bekele's last 1000m looks to be ~1 second faster, and his last 400m ~0.5 faster.

But this seems to imply that Farah would, at worst, get 2nd to Bekele in a very close race. Looking at the 2008 Olympics and 2015 World Championships, they both ran the same time, and Bekele closed a little faster. But Farah was clipped and almost fell on the last lap. Though Bekele did ease up a little, as he wasn't being challenged as much as Farah.

Seems like Bekele would certainly win a fast race. I'd give Bekele the edge in a medium-paced race, though it would be close. And a slow race would be very close.

Samuel DeChamplain wrote:

2008 10,000m 53.42 off a 27:01 pace cruising in the last 50m+ (last K in 2:27)

2012 10,000m 53.48 off a 27:30 pace (last K in 2:28)

2008 5,000m 53.87 off a 12:57 pace celebrated over 100m out (last K in 2:25)

2012 5,000m 52.94 off a 13:44 pace lol (last K in 2:25)

Small sample, I can compare more races, but mo wouldn't out kick Bekele in his prime at all.

2015 10,000m mo closed in 54.15 and a 2:28 last K on a 27:01 pace, best comparison to Bekele's 08.

It's one thing to look at their wins, as we don't know if they had more in the tank. One of Bekele's biggest losses was in '04 to El G at the Olympics. He closed in "only" 53 in a 13:15 race which was clearly about as fast as he could go. Sure it was probably 27.5 and 25.5 split, but still. It's not unreasonable to think Mo would have been right there, if not ahead of Bekele.

If it's sub 13:00 or sub 27:00, my money is on Bekele as he could almost always close in 53, but if it's slower, I think Mo might have an edge, and wouldn't put a 52.0 out of the question if pushed all the way to the line.

As far as all-time, it doesn't really matter. We can speculate what Farah "could" run all we want, but Bekele actually DID run 12:37 and 26:17, which undoubtedly gives him the edge (Geb too).

psod wrote:

dfasfads wrote:

I don't think indoors and cross country mean much in the greatest of all-time discussion. Really, there's outdoor track and the marathon. Farah is soon to have the most outdoor championship golds ever. If Lebron James wins 7 nba titles, he'd probably be considered the best ever, even if doesn't average as many points as Jordan.

If the same people show up at indoors as outdoors, then why shouldn't indoors count? If you say because there is less quality competition, then logically you have to agree that Farah's outdoor golds should be similarly worth less because he is racing lesser competition than Geb and Bekele.

We've been through this already. Mo isn't racing lesser competition. Mo faced more sub 12:50 athletes than Bekele or Geb did. And beat them.

Great list.

Conversation over.

Mr. Obvious wrote:

He's slower, a good bit slower than the all time best.

All Farah has is the strongest 1500m and a slightly faster Indoor 2 Mile:

Farah ~ Kipchoge ~ Bekele ~ Geb ~ Komen

03:28.8 ~ 03:33.2 ~ 03:32.4 ~ 03:33.7 ~ 03:29.5

03:56.5 ~ 03:50.4 ~ n/a ~~~~ 03:52.4 ~ 03:46.4

07:32.6 ~ 07:27.7 ~ 07:25.8 ~ 07:25.1 ~ 07:20.7

08:07.8 ~ 08:07.7 ~ 08:13.5 ~ 08:01.1 ~ 07:58.6

12:53.1 ~ 12:46.5 ~ 12:37.4 ~ 12:39.4 ~ 12:39.7

26:46.6 ~ 26:49.0 ~ 26:17.5 ~ 26:22.7 ~ 27:38.3

59:32:0 ~ 59:25:0 ~ 1:02:12 ~ 58:55:0

2:08:21 ~ 2:03:05 ~ 2:05:04 ~ 2:03:59

03:39.0 ~ 03:36.2 ~ n/a ~~~~ 03:31.8 ~~ n/a

03:57.9 ~ n/a ~~~~ 04:01.6 ~ ~ n/a ~~~~ n/a

07:33.1 ~ 07:29.4 ~ 07:30.5 ~ 07:26.2 ~ 07:24.9

08:03.4 ~ 08:07.4 ~ 08:04.4 ~ 08:04.7 ~ 08:16.9

13:10.6 ~ 12:55.7 ~ 12:49.6 ~ 12:50.4 ~ 12:51.5

I looked at the 2009 world championships 5k 53.72 last lap, eased up maybe last 5-10 meters max, last K was 2:24 off a 13:17 pace. Also note Mo got left in the dust in that race.

I got an idea. When looking at the greatest LONG DISTANCE runner of alltime we should look at three things. The first one is what they accomplish on the track in the 5000m and 10000m. Basically, just looking at the wcs and Olympic medals as well as personal bests. Second,we should look at their world cross country results. It kills me that people are ignoring this. For the idiots who say no one competes at world cross country anymore, well how do you explain the two Kenyans who whooped mo's behind the half marathon. Didn't they compete in the 2015 world cross country championships? I'm pretty sure they aren't nobodies. The last thing is the roads. The half marathon and the marathon basically. I think the runner who has the best combination of all three disciplines is the best overall runner. My take.

Namer of people wrote:

Mr. Obvious wrote:

Not that uncommon, really? Can you name some other runners who went from also-rans to world-beaters in their late 20s?

Moorcroft.

Baumann. Radcliffe.

You can look at that in (at least) two different ways. If we assign doping as the main reason to Farah's late improvement, then that implies that he raced clean(er) for a couple of years. As a consequence, he could have been a "world-beater" some 4 - 6 years earlier, had he started that doping earlier.

Then he really could be the (championship) GOAT now. Well. That of course depends on how he would have raced against Bekele doped to the gills, e.g. in 2008.

Farah could run 12:45-12:50 and 26:30-26:40. But what sets him apart is he is faster over 1500, 800, and 400 than Bekele and Geb. And the way those races go these days, thats more important than being the wr holder.

Look at the examples I used of races and closing times between Farah and Bekele, you'll find that Farah is in no way a faster closer than Bekele despite his quicker short distance prs.

Bekele was a doper. EOS. His world records should be wiped off the books.

I like Mo Farah, and I think he's a great runner. He's definitely figured out how to win when it counts.

But he will always be just short of counting himself among THE GREATEST while he lacks a world record. For me, it's a simple as that. He needs to break the WR in the 5K or the 10K, or I think the 2 Mile - others may certainly disagree, but I think this record is softer than most think, and Mo has the right combination of speed, stamina and endurance to break Komen's mark.

When he sets a world record, then he could rightfully be called one of the all time greats. But without, he falls just shy of it.

JackDunlopTheRunner wrote:

Farah could run 12:45-12:50 and 26:30-26:40. But what sets him apart is he is faster over 1500, 800, and 400 than Bekele and Geb. And the way those races go these days, thats more important than being the wr holder.

*could* doesn't matter much in this discussion, until he proves that fitness, he's not helping his position in the discussion. He's still far down the list for all-time 5000m and 10000m times. If we look at the 5000m, as the most-raced distance for this cohort, we see the top four guys running many times under Farah's PR of 12:53.11:

Bekele - 11 times

Geb - 6 times

Komen - 7 times

Kipchoge - 7 times

400 and 800 times are irrelevant here. Sure, his 1500m is considerably faster. Komen was a tick away and Geb's indoor 1500m is arguably in the same realm.