training wrong?

Do strides bro

hsloser wrote:

The biggest thing I have going for me is I can run high mileage days like that 20 miler and feel relatively good I don't feel sore. I was just extremely tired after and to the poster of an average of 3 mikes the other days. I ran 6 miles 2 of it tempo then the next days 6 miles easy then 6 I was supposed to run 12 miles but it turned into 20 since around 12-16 I was running under 8 minutes each mile 7:52, 7:44, 7:44, 7:43, 7:32, 7:43. I know it's not crazy fast but just those splits after I had already ran a lot of miles tells me I'm already improving right?

Yeah I meant no offense with the talent comment. You have some talent, just not 13/14 minute 5K talent. You could well run in the 16s, maybe 15s if you keep up your training.

The 20 miler is really impressive. You're fit, you're ready to go.

It's your speed and efficiency that is clearly holding you back. If you want to run in the 17s, guess what? You need to do pace-specific work! In the summer, it's a bit too early to do serious interval workouts. But you still need to get into shape to run 5:30-50 for 3 miles by October.

While you will get SOME aerobic benefit from very slow running, if you are running too far off your goal pace (like 10:00 miles), you are getting no efficiency benefits at all and will have no shot of running 5:30-50 pace come October. That's why you need to do some tempos and fartleks over the summer, where you are at least touching a range of faster paces for some period of time, and adding some strides as well. This is not about running so hard that you are beating yourself into the ground - when you are out on a fartlek, once you feel you are crossing that threshold where you are getting into serious oxygen debt, slow the pace back down, since the key here is to get your body used to maintaining a fast pace without hindering your ability to recover and run the next day.

If you stick to 40mpw, I would strive to do most of my running at 8:00 or faster, with some miles at 7:30 pace, some at 7:00 pace, some at 6:30 and some minutes of running at the low 6s/high 5s each week.

Progression runs (negative splitting your runs, ending at goal pace by the last mile), fartleks, tempos are your best friend.

You can't train like an 800 guy and expect to see great results in the 5k. For a guy like you, you should be capping your long run to 25% of your weekly mileage MAXIMUM. Try running 40 mpw as you are used to already but with a LR of 10 miles and adjust the rest of the week accordingly. I think you will see major differences on that change alone.

Haha wrote:

10 minute pace is always too slow. That is shuffling.

Also, 40 miles in a week with a 20 mile long run?! So you ran 20 miles in a day and averaged 3.3 every other day?

The biggest thing that you need to do is improve consistency. If you want to hit 40 mpw, run 5 miles per day with a 10 mile long run or 6 miles per day with a 10 mile long run and a day off. Or, better yet, ibstead of a day off, do a lowet mileage easy day to recover after the long run. No high schooler needs to be running 20 miles at a time. Also, try to stay below 8 minute pace. Easy days can be a bit slower, but long slow distance will be useless to you unless you are running long, slow races. In high schoolx your races will be neither.

I have days where a 10 minute mile pace is tough. I also have days where 8:30 feels effortless. Of course,this is a HS kid and I am middle-aged.

hsloser wrote:

The biggest thing I have going for me is I can run high mileage days like that 20 miler and feel relatively good I don't feel sore. I was just extremely tired after and to the poster of an average of 3 mikes the other days. I ran 6 miles 2 of it tempo then the next days 6 miles easy then 6 I was supposed to run 12 miles but it turned into 20 since around 12-16 I was running under 8 minutes each mile 7:52, 7:44, 7:44, 7:43, 7:32, 7:43. I know it's not crazy fast but just those splits after I had already ran a lot of miles tells me I'm already improving right?

That is perfectly fine. Those mile splits are where you should be on a long run, you dont have to kill it. That's a hell of a lot faster than a run with an average pace of 10:00, which is what I was concerned with. Sub 8 is fine, even a little slower is okay, but 9 and 10 min miles is crawling, to the point where you won't be doing much.

The reason I said 10 minute pace is because sometimes I run on the treadmill and it feels extremely fast at 6 mph. But it turns out the speed thing is very in accurate on the treadmill so I would guess I ran maybe a couple miles over 40 since 2 of my runs where on the ttreadmill. I know I shouldn't run on it but sometimes my parents won't let me run at night so I just opt to run on the treadmill.

Also today I did 6 miles at sub 8 pace average 7:58. My last week was really bad only being 25 miles off of 4 days since I was sick for the other 3.

Any thoughts on why you got sick?

On the one hand, when I was in HS I never needed a rest day even at 60 mpw but if you are getting sick there is a reason.

How is your sleep?

Diet?

To close exposure to sick people?

My girlfriend has been sick so yeah that explains it.