3:57 is not even close to 3:53 (But go Drew!)

Would have rather seen Slag vs Hunter..

I think if you put Hunter in the exact same race scenario as Webb had in 2001 the record is in serious danger.

You can't really compare the capability of one runner vs. another when they were in races that played out completely different.

ziggy zags wrote:

qwe wrote:

He blasted a 3:58. Woo. Terrible pacing, so I still give him credit, but he had zero gear change in the last quarter.

Hunter's pacing seemed close to spot on, he was 58-59. He ran a solid race, but was outclassed by the field. You can't really blame the pace setters for what goes on at the back of the pack.

Should have raced the National Mile. The Tinman's comments now sound a little hollow and arrogant.

Totally agree. He came through in 2:57, which is precisely what they wanted, and basically had nothing left. I was hoping he could at least run a PR, if not 3:55.

Hunter has terrible form when he runs. i never noticed it before. Yikes!

Not Ideal wrote:

I think if you put Hunter in the exact same race scenario as Webb had in 2001 the record is in serious danger.

You can't really compare the capability of one runner vs. another when they were in races that played out completely different.

We just saw what would happen and the result was 5.4 seconds off the record. The pace didn't play out for a fast winning time but that made it perfectly set up for Hunter. There were plenty of people in the 3:53 to 3:56 range for him to go with, and he just fell off them to last place. Difference between Webb's race and Hunter's: Webb flew by most of the field on the last lap, Hunter got gapped by the field. Obviously he can run faster than 3:58.8, but just as obvious he has no shot at the record. Maybe next year in college he can go for 3:53-3:54.

I think that is at least part of the problem. When Webb set his record the pace was even and quick. This meant a number of guys who were further up the pack with 300-600 to go started fading which really helps when you're in the back of the pack and starting to kick. Webb had a bunch of guys who blew their loads early to roll by which, as anyone who has ever passed someone on the last lap of a mile knows, only helped boost him along.

Hunter's race played out differently, the slow pace meant everyone still had a big gear left. His coach even acknowledged that he doesn't have the finishing kick that the other guys in the race have. This is emphasized even more when going into the last lap the first 800 was 4+ seconds slower than planned. He got his doors blown off. Mentally that's tough to take.

A lack of ability isn't the issue. The way the race played out was not ideal compared to the race Webb was in when the record was broken. Maybe he didn't feel that great either.... Either way I think it is very inaccurate to dismiss Hunter as having no shot at the record.

When Webb set the record the stars aligned on that day. If the stars aligned for Hunter I think the record would be in serious danger.

As I said yesterday, the assumption that the race would be really fast and strung out because Kiprop is running (lol when does he ever go fast?) was likely wrong.

3:51 for a tactical win, right on schedule. Lot's of big names in one race trying to just win, Olympic year, Kiprop has outright said he doesn't want to run fast this year to save himself for August; yet the Letsrun hype mill keeps cranking.

What is a disgrace is that Charlie Grice, 1:46/3:35 and World 1500m finalist was in the National mile (won in 3:52 for anyone that missed it) and they had a 3:57 high schooler in the Bowerman mile. Joke.

What times are these when a high school kid runs 3:57 and we're disappointed?!

Cool story, bro wrote:

What times are these when a high school kid runs 3:57 and we're disappointed?!

Even more interesting is comparing Jim Ryun's splits in his solo 3:51.1 to the guy's in today's (aand last year's race). The runners have higher targets to shoot for but aren't necessarily better.

Not Ideal wrote:

A lack of ability isn't the issue. The way the race played out was not ideal compared to the race Webb was in when the record was broken. Maybe he didn't feel that great either.... Either way I think it is very inaccurate to dismiss Hunter as having no shot at the record.

What were Hunter's splits? What were Webb's?

Anyone have accurate splits on Kiprop, Jager, and Hunter?

Wonder what Grant Fisher and Maton would have run at Pre last year. Bet you they would have beat 3:58.86. One or both. OP was right on. Break Webb's record, give me a break. Now Hunter is goin to the Olympics. What is this the 1960's.

Although I think Hunter can run quite a bit faster at the mile now, it's time to stop with the mile and 800 and blow down the 2 mile and 5000m records. He's not touching Webb's record and has a great likelihood of going 3:53-3:55 next year.

Set the longer distance records and be done with it.

ziggy zags wrote:

qwe wrote:

He blasted a 3:58. Woo. Terrible pacing, so I still give him credit, but he had zero gear change in the last quarter.

Hunter's pacing seemed close to spot on, he was 58-59. He ran a solid race, but was outclassed by the field. You can't really blame the pace setters for what goes on at the back of the pack.

Should have raced the National Mile. The Tinman's comments now sound a little hollow and arrogant.

Not sure what race you were watching. Pacing was shite for everyone including Hunter. Hunter's splits were 1:01, 1:59, 2:57, 3:58. Kiprop was 59, 1:56, ?, 3:51. Hunter could have ran better today, but the pace was certainly a big problem. Hunter on a good day should be able to beat Ryun's time

Not Ideal wrote:

When Webb set the record the stars aligned on that day. If the stars aligned for Hunter I think the record would be in serious danger.

And maybe the stars aligned for Hunter when he ran his 3:57 indoors and that is his peak race. Obviously we have know way of knowing. Rupps 13:37 was a major outlier. Webbs 3:53 was also an outlier.

I agree with the other people who suggest it is time to go for a fast 2 mile or 5k. Granted I have no clue what is training has been like but he should be looking at 8:25/13:35 type races.

Can we stop saying the Stars aligned perfectly for Webb? Yes, his 3:53 was magical, however let's not forget he ran 1:47 and 8:45i both solo that season. To add to that he also ran 3:38 with a 54 final lap at 2001 USA championships on tired legs from a preliminary where he blitzed a 3:45 with a 53 closing lap. At the point of Pre in the season of his senior year he was ready to go under Ryun's record several times.

calculo wrote:

you do realise outdoors is lot quicker than indoors because of the murderous rotational forces on the 1/2 sized indoor track ???

in '97, hicham ran 3'31.18i wr & outdoor mile of 3'44.90, worth 3'28.24 with 1.08 conversion

i have little doubt that hicham was in similar shape in both races, so conversion for 1500 or mile indoors shoud be

~ 3'31.18 / 3'28.24 = 1.013/1.014

the kid ran 3'57.1i -> with 1.013/1.014 conversion

~ 3'53.8 / 3'54.0

the kid was in 3'53-high/3'54-flat outdoor shape weeks ago

i expect him to blast a 3'52+ perhaps even into 3'51s if he keeps his nerve + conditions not too windy + good even pace & he knocks out steady 58s

You do realize that people who talk down to others by using phrases such as, "you do realize?" are pompous a$$holes?

Well he did go under four?

There should be a new rule at these events when a runner

is lauded at breaking the HS mile record and they don't?

There should be a "very loud Price is Right sound effect" when the

cross the line and don't? You know that one where a contestant bids over,

that Duh! Duh! Duh! Duh!....sad trumpets?

Webb was a monster wrote:

Can we stop saying the Stars aligned perfectly for Webb? Yes, his 3:53 was magical, however let's not forget he ran 1:47 and 8:45i both solo that season. To add to that he also ran 3:38 with a 54 final lap at 2001 USA championships on tired legs from a preliminary where he blitzed a 3:45 with a 53 closing lap. At the point of Pre in the season of his senior year he was ready to go under Ryun's record several times.

^this.

Suddenly on these new Webb's Record discussions people keep saying the stars aligned for him. Really all that means is he had a good race. Saying the stars aligned is just dramatic nonsense. Webb took one shot at the HS Record and got it. The heavens were unmoved.