Kiprop runs 1:44.70 TT at high altitude

habs wrote:

Is that time accurate? How did he look in the races? If so that would be a pretty crazy altitude double...

Altitude is a benefit for all athletes in an 800m race. Even more so if said athlete is altitude born and raised.

Or could be like me and prone to injury/sickness

Titans GM wrote:

crete wrote:

This was the best part.

Recall the Brazier thread where he was saying Brazier hadn't done any speed work when he ran that insane indoor 800. Every 400/800 guy spoke up and said that was insane - of course he was doing speed. I believe ventolin called them all idiots and morons. This from a guy who never actually competed in the sport, but just sits his fat ass on a lazy boy in his down-market Thorton Heath terrace.

This always makes me chuckle. Guys who put up very fast times early in the season, claim they've done "no speedwork" or barely any workouts at all and yet then never are able to better their times the rest of the season. They're either lying or probably shouldn't bother ever doing speedwork again if it clearly just makes them slower.

They could just be guys like me who have a special talent for getting sick/hurt during taper. I had 3 consecutive years where I either missed peak entirely (broke big toe) or got sick/hurt within 3 weeks of my goal race.

That said, these guys are definitely doing some speed work, even if it's not super formal.

El Flaco Pelon Rojo wrote:

Ralph Doubell won the '68 Olympics at 1:44.3 at Mexico City's 7381 foot altitude. Maybe altitude not a big factor for the 800, more of a speed event?

Then Jamaica should have more world class 800m runners and Kenya should not be the top 800m nation in history. Perhaps the US should.

Boomsauce wrote:

I still can't believe that makhloufi training video. Wow.

yeah it's such a DOPE workout, because of all the DOPING he does

Checker wrote:

El Flaco Pelon Rojo wrote:

Ralph Doubell won the '68 Olympics at 1:44.3 at Mexico City's 7381 foot altitude. Maybe altitude not a big factor for the 800, more of a speed event?

Then Jamaica should have more world class 800m runners and Kenya should not be the top 800m nation in history. Perhaps the US should.

Not arguing about whether the 800 is a speed or endurance event but your statement doesn't hold true.

Jamaica is a country that doesn't focus on anything above the 400m really. It is a cultural thing. In Kenya the opposite is true. Look at Mohammed Aman from Ethiopia, everyone in his home country told him to move up and run the 5k for no reason other than it is well respected there.

Nothing to do with whether the 800m is speed or strength. Kenya just produced a world champion javelin thrower.

ISBN wrote:Altitude is a benefit for all athletes in an 800m race. Even more so if said athlete is altitude born and raised.

nonsense

if an elite ran a 800 at 15,000' altitude instead of 3,000' do you think he woud be faster at 15,000' ???

i have posted many times that for 800, there is cut-off altitude where times get slower

i will use a 1'44.00 time at various altitudes & give sea-level equivalent :

using ncaa app for various distances close to whole round number of feet & then applying wind-altitude calculator as the app only seems to convert for hypoxic metabolism not reduced air resistance :

- 3,124' -> 1'43.71 according to app

factoring in reduced air resistance for 1'44.00 or 13.00s/100m at 3,124' -> correcting factor of 13.04/13.00 ->

1'44.03

- 4,009' -> 1'43.60 according to app

factoring in reduced air resistance for 1'44.00 or 13.00s/100m at 4,009' -> correcting factor of 13.051/13.00 ->

1'44.01

- 5,081' -> 1'43.39 according to app

factoring in reduced air resistance for 1'44.00 or 13.00s/100m at 5,081' -> correcting factor of 13.064/13.00 ->

1'43.90

- 6,007' -> 1'43.15 according to app

factoring in reduced air resistance for 1'44.00 or 13.00s/100m at 6,007' -> correcting factor of 13.074/13.00 ->

1'43.74

- 7,163' -> 1'42.75 according to app

factoring in reduced air resistance for 1'44.00 or 13.00s/100m at 7'163 -> correcting factor of 13.086/13.00 ->

1'43.43

- 7,771' -> 1'42.50 according to app

factoring in reduced air resistance for 1'44.00 or 13.00s/100m at 7,771' -> correcting factor of 13.093/13.00 ->

1'43.23

from the analysis, it is obvious that 800 is virtually unchanged at upto 4,000', a tenth slower at 5,000', then starts losing ground being 1/4s handicapped at 6,000' & over 3/4s when well into 7,000's

he did it yesterday as well

applying some curve-fitting software, the sea-level equivalent of 1'44.00 at various whole number altitiudes :

3000' = 1'44.03

4000' = 1'44.01

5000' = 1'43.91

6000' = 1'43.74

7000' = 1'43.48

8000' = 1'43.15

for doubell, who ran 1'44.40 at 7'381, his sea-level time was =

~ 1'43.75

it was an outright wr beating effort as his actual 1'44.40wr tied snell/Ryun, which means little as i doubt he reckoned he was ever in those guys' class

not obviously though best 800 guy of all-time, let alone best 800 guy in race as Kiprugut just ran a near solo run off an outrageous 1st 200 of 23.9 !!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFxmloerZIo

it is incalculable what that suicidal 200 at altitude cost him & he nearly held on !!!

he was likely in sea-level shape, fully rested, smoothly paced to bell off 24-high likely

~ 1'42-mid

Metric Miler wrote:

Then Jamaica should have more world class 800m runners and Kenya should not be the top 800m nation in history. Perhaps the US should.

Not arguing about whether the 800 is a speed or endurance event but your statement doesn't hold true.

Jamaica is a country that doesn't focus on anything above the 400m really. It is a cultural thing. In Kenya the opposite is true. Look at Mohammed Aman from Ethiopia, everyone in his home country told him to move up and run the 5k for no reason other than it is well respected there.

Nothing to do with whether the 800m is speed or strength. Kenya just produced a world champion javelin thrower.[/quote]

Are you saying that if Jamaica focused on events above 800m then they would produce many world class 800m runners? You must be joking.

If Jamaica had potential 800m runners then they would be producing them. They are not hindered by culture. Track is popular in Jamaica. If they had good 800m runners , the culture would not stop them.

Whats stopping Jamaica from producing good 800m runners is the fact that the 800m is more of an endurance event. If it was a sprint event them more Jamaicans would be world class 800m runners.

The fact that Kenya produced a good javelin thrower proves my point. It proves that culture does not hinder Kenya or any other major track country from producing javeliners or jumpers or sprinters.

The reason Kenya does not dominate field events is mostly because they do not have anough talent to dominate and secondly because they have no coaches. But there is no shortage of Kenyans attempting field events. Go to a track meet in Kenya and see for yourself. There are long jumpers, sprinters, discuss throwers etc.

Checker wrote:

The fact that Kenya produced a good javelin thrower proves my point. It proves that culture does not hinder Kenya or any other major track country from producing javeliners or jumpers or sprinters.

The reason Kenya does not dominate field events is mostly because they do not have anough talent to dominate and secondly because they have no coaches. But there is no shortage of Kenyans attempting field events. Go to a track meet in Kenya and see for yourself. There are long jumpers, sprinters, discuss throwers etc.

Your entire post is wrong. This is a good example. Kenya produces and has produced lots of great sprinters. Kenya and Jamaica CAN do it, but for whatever reason (cultural, coaching, or whatever else) they tend to be better at distance running and sprinting respectively.

ofk wrote:

Checker wrote:

The fact that Kenya produced a good javelin thrower proves my point. It proves that culture does not hinder Kenya or any other major track country from producing javeliners or jumpers or sprinters.

The reason Kenya does not dominate field events is mostly because they do not have anough talent to dominate and secondly because they have no coaches. But there is no shortage of Kenyans attempting field events. Go to a track meet in Kenya and see for yourself. There are long jumpers, sprinters, discuss throwers etc.

Your entire post is wrong. This is a good example. Kenya produces and has produced lots of great sprinters. Kenya and Jamaica CAN do it, but for whatever reason (cultural, coaching, or whatever else) they tend to be better at distance running and sprinting respectively.

Yeah this guy has really misrepresented/misunderstood the facts.

In Kenya, middle and long distance running is their heritage and in their culture, so talented athletes have many centers to train at and great knowledgeable coaches in the matter, and their families and communities will be supportive. There is little respect for sprinting or field events (although this is changing) so people are put off competing in those events. It isn't America in East Africa, there isn't a wealth of opportunity present where anyone can aspire to do anything, just get a college scholarship and train with knowledgeable coaches in a range of disciplines. The facilities high school kids take for granted that are needed for more technical events (sprinting, throwing, hurdles) aren't as readily available to all Kenyan kids. You also aren't going to be paid to compete for Kenya Police or Army running the 60h or 110h because nobody cares.

And what stops Jamaica producing world class middle distance and long distance runners is the number of kids that are interested is small. They all want to be like Bolt. They probably have poor distance coaching on the island also.

If the 800m was their favourite event you would have hoards of kids trying it out and for certain there would be some of potentially elite quality.

Do you really think that the UK has some 'middle distance gene' that allowed Coe Cram Ovett Elliot Crabb to be produced?

ofk wrote:

Checker wrote:

The fact that Kenya produced a good javelin thrower proves my point. It proves that culture does not hinder Kenya or any other major track country from producing javeliners or jumpers or sprinters.

The reason Kenya does not dominate field events is mostly because they do not have anough talent to dominate and secondly because they have no coaches. But there is no shortage of Kenyans attempting field events. Go to a track meet in Kenya and see for yourself. There are long jumpers, sprinters, discuss throwers etc.

Your entire post is wrong. This is a good example. Kenya produces and has produced lots of great sprinters. Kenya and Jamaica CAN do it, but for whatever reason (cultural, coaching, or whatever else) they tend to be better at distance running and sprinting respectively.

This is laughable. Kenya is not good at distance running because of culture. They are good because they have talent. There is one ethnic group in Kenya that for evolutionary reasons has a concentration of freakishly good distance runners. Its not culture. Its evolution.

The sport of track is not even popular in Kenya. Very few people actually follow the sport as closely as the Europeans or Americans do. Even among the kalenjin people, there simply is not enough interest. They may be proud of their medal winning runners. But they do not follow the sport as much as you do.

A website like letsrun would not thrive in Kenya. There simply is'nt enough interest culturally. Interest only peaks during the Olympics or world champs.

So once again please. Kenyans are good because they have talent. Not because of culture.

Metric Miler wrote:

And what stops Jamaica producing world class middle distance and long distance runners is the number of kids that are interested is small. They all want to be like Bolt. They probably have poor distance coaching on the island also.

If the 800m was their favourite event you would have hoards of kids trying it out and for certain there would be some of potentially elite quality.

Do you really think that the UK has some 'middle distance gene' that allowed Coe Cram Ovett Elliot Crabb to be produced?

Even if you sent the best distance coaches to Jamaica they still would not produce many 800m runners. They simply lack the endurance genes.

Even if hoardes of Jamaican kids tried out for the 800m, they would not thrive.

This is simple. Jamaicans are genetically predisposed to the sprints due to the abundance of fast twitch fibre on the island.

Its genetic people. Its not cultural !!!!!!!!!!!

Also the idea that Jamaica lacks distance coaches is laughable. Training for distance does not require much specialized coaching as the sprints and hurdles do. If it did, Africans would be at a huge disadvantage. Yet Africans have been winning medals since the 1950s.

Metric Miler wrote:

In Kenya, middle and long distance running is their heritage and in their culture, so talented athletes have many centers to train at and great knowledgeable coaches in the matter, and their families and communities will be supportive. There is little respect for sprinting or field events (although this is changing) so people are put off competing in those events. It isn't America in East Africa, there isn't a wealth of opportunity present where anyone can aspire to do anything, just get a college scholarship and train with knowledgeable coaches in a range of disciplines. The facilities high school kids take for granted that are needed for more technical events (sprinting, throwing, hurdles) aren't as readily available to all Kenyan kids. You also aren't going to be paid to compete for Kenya Police or Army running the 60h or 110h because nobody cares.

Sorry but you are wrong.

Kenyans respect sprinters a lot more than they respect distance runners.

Usain Bolt is more famous in Kenya than most of the distance runners.

I Know more Kenyans would recognize Bolt before they recognize Kamworor, Kaloki, Makau, Kipchoge, Mary keitany etc

So the idea that Kenyans don't respect the sprints is an absolute joke !

Again, distance running is only popular in a very small pocket of Kenya.

Metric Miler wrote:In Kenya, middle and long distance running is their heritage and in their culture, so talented athletes have many centers to train at and great knowledgeable coaches in the matter, and their families and communities will be supportive

no

Asbel's strength work posted on youtube coupla years ago consisted off going to infield & dragging a big tyre tied by rope to his waist !!!

someone can fetch the vid

that is beyond primitive, it is utterly shocking !!!

i fetched it

it's even more shocking than i remember !!!

where is weights room ???

there is no serious weight-training in Kenyan camps, which if there were woud be looking at worst

1%

improvements for 800 & up

nonsense

they have no interest in 800 at present

utter drivel

it coud easilty be claimed they lacked 400 genes even when bert couda run 44-flat in '84 if his leg had held-up

the jamaican 400 record was smashed down from 44.40 in '10 to

43.93 !!!

in a 1st round !!!

wouda been worth nearer 43-mid if not a controlled run of 1st round but just a 1-off run

utter drivel

they have huge advantage in having lots of weights-rooms

that woud make-up lotta deficit for lack of roadwork

their nr shoud be in 1'41s off no specific interest but some focus just from sprint-coaches

utter nonsense

primitive argument

fast-twitch is only part of argument

it is not an exclusive property

there are huge numbers more of white guys in 1st world with good nutrition meaning even if less incidence of whatever fast-twitch genes benefit may offer, the numbers of white boyz with fast twitch shoud be helluva lot more than jamaica

it's becuse white boyz shun sprinting as told too much by pa or coach it is black-boyz game

utter drivel

even if fast-twitch has 2 or 3 times more preponderance in jamaican's than white Americans, the hugely nutritioned population of USA is 50+ times bigger, meaning hugely more reservoir of fast American white boyz than jamaicans untapped

Ryun had misfortune to be running on dirt in '66/'67 with no pacers

if given mexico track in '66 / '67 & smooth pacer to bell in 24-low / 48-high, the American white boy record shoud be

~ 1'39-high

someone go look up the current American white boy record...

nonsense

name them

yes

but where are jamaican distance coaches ???

they are

who was akai-bua's coach ???

Not true. Like I said, what is the middle distance gene that is prevalent in Britain? Or the gene that allows Eastern Europe to produce great throwers, and great middle distance runners, but few sprinters or long distance runners?

Jamaican people aren't all born the same. There is middle distance talent there, just the sport isn't popular and so they do not pursue it or ever find their talent. There will be more Jamaican distance runners as the sports popularity increases, I am certain. Jamaican people are as diverse as any other nation.

Metric Miler wrote:

Jamaican people are as diverse as any other nation.

The rest was OK but the above is just not true.