As a coach I have noticed that some of my most stubborn/determined athletes

Trained for workouts and no racing training.

My coach used to say "don't think, just do." Good advice for the over analytical types. I spent two years obsessing over racing before figuring this out. Would get my heart going and adrenaline dumping just sitting in class. Eventually just forced myself to think of other things. Helped a ton.

Look Out Kid wrote:

Some great insights in this thread. This area of running psychology is underdiscussed, yet can make or break an athlete.

The job of the coach is to keep the entire team both RELAXED and FOCUSED, even if it means holding back the overtrainers and kicking off slackers.

Well put.

While I wouldn't endorse hate as an appropriate attitude toward other participants, I would agree that having some sort of emotional response is a big motivator to doing well, whether it's "love of the game" or "I'm NOT going to let THAT guy beat me". I think that tends to be one of the main differences between a "runner" and a "competitor." Some of the best coaches I've had were able to fuel that passion at the correct time.

Kick 'em to death wrote:

I used to be like that, then I read the cycling book the Rider by Tim Krabbé. It includes this quote

"racing imitates life, the way it would be without the corruptive influence of civilisation. When you see an enemy lying on the ground, what’s your first reaction? To help him to his feet. In road racing, you kick him to death."

It made me rethink my approach to racing. You can't be passive, you need to be able to turn on a race face and call upon some store of hate every time you pin on a number - and when you've got a number on, anything goes. Kick 'em to death.

Often my athletes who are the hardest working and detail oriented are the ones thinking before their race "what if I didn't get enough sleep? Did I do that one stretch I was supposed to do? Oh no! I ate a doughnut the other day I'm screwed!"

The part of their personality that makes them great at preparation also dooms them on race day. When I was racing myself I used to imagine I had a second personality that I would let take over when I toed the line. It was my loose, fun, somewhat cocky side who didn't care about anything but competing.

I agree that a race is a kind of fight, but so is a game of chess. You have to be merciless and cunning etc, but then shake hands afterwards. Because the best man on the day won the fight.

I'll echo what some others have said - it's likely psychological. I had this problem myself in 8th and 9th grade. I'd get so nervous before races I often felt that I was running through molasses. What helped me, ironically is that when I started high school (for us then that was 10th grade) I was no longer the top guy on the team. There was no pressure. Then, I became accustomed to racing up to my potential again (such as it was...) and that became my expectation when I raced.

It's also likely that some of these kids are running way too hard in workouts - meaning, 1. they're not actually underperforming as much as you - and they - might think 2. they're not training properly.

The remedy is to impose some pace discipline in training. You may do this already, but give them maximum paces for workouts. Scold them if they go too fast. Say nothing if they go too slow. At least for a while. And set the pace slow. So, if ordinarily they'd run a 7 miler at 7 minute pace or something send them out with instructions not to run faster than 8 minute pace. Tell them that they risk missing the next meet if they come back before 56 minutes are up. Maybe, if they're really fresh for the next meet, they'll be able to run above whatever psychological problems are holding them back and they can start associating success with racing again.

Are they racing the workouts? Maybe what you're getting in practice is all they got.

dumb is gooder wrote:

you only want you athletes to be stubborn when it comes to not letting competitors pass them in races. otherwise, you want an easy-going, trusting ignoramus who never gives up and only wants to get better.

Personality and Performance wrote:

love this quote

I am pretty sure it is a blend of physiological and psychological factors, and each factor exacerbates the other.

The runners who try to hammer every session to improve miss the point in a couple ways - they are missing the RELAX part of training, where you learn to run more relaxed in training, and it allows you to run faster in races. Physiologically, they are worn down by the time the race comes, and since they care so much, it gets into their head. They get to the first mile on pace, but their legs are already dead, and it all goes downhill from there. They think maybe they didn't hammer their workouts hard enough, and the spiral continues.

Sometimes runners can get away with hammering every workout, but I find they are likely the ones who don't care as much. They don't overthink it, and run really slow on their recovery days - when a stubborn athlete would have a pre-determined pace in mind they wanted to run (they might not hammer their recovery day, but they are not really recovering, either).

The overthinking athlete can overcome these problems while still maintaining their passion, but it usually doesn't come until after high school. I think a lot of times, they don't get it figured out until after college. Once they are done running on a team, they don't get so worked up about practice, and can finally place the right balance of energy on races. Often, this group is capable of running road/track races much superior to what they accomplished running on a team, and continues to race because they feel they have something to prove.

It is the opposite challenge for those who have the right balance in high school - they can flourish through high school and college running on a team, but running and racing on their own takes a different kind of motivation. Additionally, since they were racing to their potential in high school and college, it is tougher to make big jumps. The post-collegieate trend for this group is more likely to be: trains semi-seriously, runs a road 5k a minute slower than their college 5000 track time (likely still winning the race), and thinks, "Eh, what's the point?" and gradually drifts away from top fitness.

ANXIETY is the main reason. Typical type-a personality stuff.

The secondary answer is they more often give near race effort in practice. So they don't have the same practice to race improvement.

"Analytical" and "overthinking" are a bit misleading as they suggest you have to not think (or be dumb) to be good. The reality is it's different for everyone.

I do best when I engross myself in the upcoming race. I visualize it, I analyze stuff to death, go over the course, weather, look at the competition, calculate possible splits. I have excel spreadsheets I would be embarrassed to show people. I'm a bit ocd when it comes to accuracy, but I'm very chill, nothing bothers me. I show up relaxed, confident, and focused on the race.

In contrast, my type-a wife has to completely dissociate from all things running or else she works herself up into a little ball of stress; full of negative thoughts and fears just repeating themselves and beating her down. She runs best when she is able to not think about the race at all, even up to the gun.

When I was racing myself I used to imagine I had a second personality that I would let take over when I toed the line. It was my loose, fun, somewhat cocky side who didn't care about anything but competing.

Yes. This is a great description of the perfect racing mentality. I think it is tough for athletes who think about everything to just "let go" all of a sudden on race day. I think it is normal for athletes to be filled with nervousness and self doubt on the starting line (I have certainly experienced this), but when the gun goes off it's like I enter a different world and all of that goes out the window. I think athletes who can't manage self-doubt and negative thoughts while racing tend to cave.

I also think there is also a connection between getting drunk and runners' mentality when racing. Athletes who are comfortable enough to just get wrecked once in a while are usually in a better mental place when racing than those who do everything "right." I believe a former professional runner mentioned this in a blog not too long ago.

Rhody wrote:

This is 100% me. I put in more work then all of my team mates but yet my races are never on-par. People who I'm beating in workouts sail past me in races. My coach is baffled by it and so am I. Any explanations?

I'm confused, do you meant "team mates" or "teammates"? Once you clarify I should be able to give some good insight.

Personality and Performance wrote:

As a coach I have noticed that some of my most stubborn/determined athletes are also the ones who are most likely to under-perform in races

The kind of athletes I'm referring to are athletes who do all the right things, stay disciplined, and are willing to do whatever it takes to get better. However, when it comes to races these athletes under-perform proportionally higher than my other athletes.

I feel that this is counter intuitive as I would think the athletes who seem to put the most in the sport and have tenacious personalities would be some of my best performers.

There is a VERY simple explanation for this. Your "most determined" athletes are simply being beaten by better runners. You don't seem to realize that these are better runners because they are not busting their butts in practice. But they are in fact simply better than the "determined" athletes (who give the illusion of being stronger runners simply by working too hard in practice).

Nothing to see here really.

this is a good thread. I'm bookmarking.

Um, I think he gets that point and you don't seem to understand. Coach wants to discuss what to do about it?

Very simple explanation: These athletes try harder in practice, thus inflating your expectations of what they can do in a race.

For A more complicated but related explanation, consider the inverted U curve with stress on the X-axis and performance on the Y-axis. Performance improves with increased stress/arousal (pressure) up to a certain point, then begins to decline when the stress/arousal becomes too great.

The athlete who is hyper-vigilant in practice is likely to be at the peak of their curve and will perform their best in practice. Put them in a race and the stress becomes too great, leading to a decline in performance.

The athlete who is less dedicated to practice is likely to be on the low end of the stress v.s. performance curve and will not perform their best there. Add the pressure of a race and they reach the peak of their curve where they will perform their best.

As a coach, it's important to understand this concept and tailor your coaching strategies to the unique temperaments of your athletes.

The most essential (and unsung for distance coaches) work on this topic is "Relax And Win" by Bud Winter, first written in 1980. At one point (60's) his small group held every sprint world record. Read this book and you will see why. It is written for ALL sports and lifestyle as well.

I would rather have a slightly lazy but talented guy any day, if racing is the bottom line (Usain Bolt being the paragon of this). With structure and guidance (provided by the coach), these are the guys who become champions. The overtraining guys who force things are heading towards injury and burnout.

Very interesting. Bump.