Radcliffe says she's not releasing blood values

Leirbag wrote:

Can someone tell Paula that blood is not complicated?

Having synthetic EPO in your blood is not complicated.

Having steroids in your blood is not complicated.

Having a hematocrit about 50 is not complicated.

Actually, it is complicated... it is not like a pregnancy test. Blood chemistry and CBC analysis values don't 'clearly' say yes/no or positive/negative to any of the things we are interested in knowing. It's lot of counts, thresholds, ranges, normal or abnormal, etc. Outright positives are often determined by markers, presence of something synthetic, a count far exceeding reasonableness or an analysis of a combination of things that don't naturally occur.

There are very legit reasons why someone's values a can be outside of the norm. Even if a particular value is 1 in 1000, it still does not 'necessarily' conclude that a person is dirty. There is always something unique about an ultra-elite athlete that makes them an outlier. A female capable of running a marathon 3 minutes faster than any other women on the planet is always going to be an abnormal human being. Natural talent isn't just the fast times and biomechanics you see, but it is also the muscle fiber, bone density, endocrine system (high testosterone, dopamine), cardiovascular efficiency, your liver's ability filter blood and all of those other bio/physio things you don't see. A person's blood chemistry values that deals with oxygen don't change much overtime, and fortunately or unfortunately for Paula, she isn't subject to the BP program, which has the ability to compare values at multiple points in time. (This is a layperson's low-grade explanation.)

Btw, I said in a post several weeks ago that Paula's name was on that list of the 28 and I am pretty sure her values are very suspicious. Notwithstanding her incredible off-the-chart-performances, I found it odd that she was not the first person in line to release her information considering she has always been a staunch AD advocate. She has also made specific statements about transparency. Right now, Paula's doctors and layers are drafting something like a term paper that will come out after the WCs explaining everything. At the end of the day, she might be convicted in court of public opinion, but don't she will receive a ban. The OJ Simpson trial proved to me that you can pay for a defense that can use the most miniscule fact to disprove accepted science. If Paula decides to fight, it will cost WADA lots of money and bring a lot of serenity upon it science and processes.

If my training is going very well (75+ m.p.w. with consistent workouts) I can squeak under 4:10 for the mile and 8:20 for the 3k. As a young man, my father could run more or less in the same range. That's with a good amount of training under our belts.

A high hematocrit does not, in my experience, indicate an automatic capacity for high endurance. As a coach, I know that some of the best athletes I worked with (running in mid 13:30 range) had hematocrits more in the 38 range. Their oxygen utilization capacity was far superior to mine.

So, I don't think that there is some one to one relationship between hematocrit and endurance capacity.

The whole sport is covering it up. Even wejo and LR.com are doing their best.

A bit awks wrote:The public's ability to interpret this information has quite clearly gone backwards over the last 13 years.

Furthermore in 2002, she was demanding that the IAAF freeze her samples so that they could be retested as technology improves:

"Since reading the article in L’Equipe, I have asked the IAAF to conduct random blood and urine tests on me in the build up to Chicago and at the competition itself. I would like these samples to be frozen and tested again in the future as new detection tests become available."

..... on condition that you don't publish the results if they are not convenient to my image written in the small print .....

PS She asked the IAAF to conduct random blood and urine tests in the build up to Chicago? Very good of her ... but surely as one of the world's most high profile athletes, that was happening already? Surely? .....

I think it would be interesting to see what happens if you take that 13:3x 5k runner at hematocrit 38-40 and boost his hematocrit to, say, 43-45.

As a scientist and engineer I personally believe that I am more qualified to interpret numbers and associate any circumstantial evidence with those numbers than some elite runner is.

Armstrong doped to such an extant that he was able to destroy the doped elite of a sport with a terribly dirty history. Yet, for the longest time, his fans refused to make the most reasonable inferences about his cheating. It was fascinating to watch, especially on this message board.

And here we go again; we know now that many Olympic finals, many podiums and major marathon favorites were likely populated by dopers but so many on this thread vociferously continue to refuse to acknowledge that there was something suspicious about marathon times three minutes faster than the best dopers in the world.

Having a discussion and making reasonable inferences will not deny anyone due process and we certainly have no power to convict and sentence anyone,

I love where rojo calls wejo a "known antidoping leader", as though aping WADA has something to do with being a leader.

so if Galen and Mo refused to release their blood tests would be Brothers be singing the same tune as for Paula??? doubt it.

Galen Rupp and all other Americans athletes have all done the same thing as Radcliffe i.e. not released their blood data. Where is the campaign to have all the US runners data published.

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We are still waiting Galen. What are you afraid of.

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You must be new around here.

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13 athletes have agreed to release the "Sunday Times" blood data. 8 Brits, 3 Germans, 1 Australian and 1 Irish.

The silence from the Americans (and their LRC fans) is DEAFENING.

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That's 8 Brits giving the finger to Radcliffe.

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... and a lot of Americans with something to hide.

jkirchner wrote:

so if Galen and Mo refused to release their blood tests would be Brothers be singing the same tune as for Paula??? doubt it.

Note to our British friends: until last week, there were 10 times more posters on this board who thought Galen Rupp was doping than Paula. And thousands more posts about Rupp and NOP being dirty.

The owners of this site would rather see Galen Rupp crippled in a car crash than to see Paula disgraced in any way.

Change of stance wrote:

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/athletics/33990503

Quite a change of stance since last December:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/athletics/11361591/Paula-Radcliffe-urges-doping-documentary-maker-to-reveal-all-about-suspicious-blood-values.html

I'm sorry but this is shady AF! I've been a fan of Paula's for a long time but her complete reversal on transparency is pure fu@*ery! I'm convinced she's a cheater now.

What's really interesting is the British online magazines and message boards are usually all over anything related to doping and there is almost no chatter about Paula not releasing blood information. In fact, the overall doping discussions have been dialed way back. Its a strange thing, because the Brits love talking about doping.

TrackCoach wrote:

What's really interesting is the British online magazines and message boards are usually all over anything related to doping and there is almost no chatter about Paula not releasing blood information. In fact, the overall doping discussions have been dialed way back. Its a strange thing, because the Brits love talking about doping.

Only foreigners cheat. Especially Americans. And people with funny names.

TrackCoach wrote:

What's really interesting is the British online magazines and message boards are usually all over anything related to doping and there is almost no chatter about Paula not releasing blood information. In fact, the overall doping discussions have been dialed way back. Its a strange thing, because the Brits love talking about doping.

Brits don't want to talk about doping when it is their own snaggle toothed idol who is guilty. Brits have a massive inferiority complex. For instance, in WWII the Brits were defeated at every single battle in Asia and Europe. When the US came over and rescued them, the Brits (led by the entirely incompetent poofter toff Montgomery) insisted on being in the spotlight at the head of the column. No different here. The Brits just couldn't stand their precious bobblehead or mo getting the boot. And mo ain't even british; that shows just how desperate they are. Brits so desperately want to move up from third-world status.

Brits don't want to talk about doping when it is their own snaggle toothed idol who is guilty. Brits have a massive inferiority complex. For instance, in WWII the Brits were defeated at every single battle in Asia and Europe. When the US came over and rescued them, the Brits (led by the entirely incompetent poofter toff Montgomery) insisted on being in the spotlight at the head of the column. No different here. The Brits just couldn't stand their precious bobblehead or mo getting the boot. And mo ain't even british; that shows just how desperate they are. Brits so desperately want to move up from third-world status.

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It's clear who really has the inferiority complex.

Wow! And to think that some 'Brits' believe all Americans to be ignorant and/or arrogant, but most of us realise that it would be stoopid and wrong to treat all Americans as though they were the same.

Waiting to see wrote:

Wow! And to think that some 'Brits' believe all Americans to be ignorant and/or arrogant, but most of us realise that it would be stoopid and wrong to treat all Americans as though they were the same.

Because Americans are not Brits.

The Higgs mechanism is very difficult to understand so we said nothing at all about the discovery of the Higgs Boson because simple people would find it hard to interpret.