Sounds good. Keep us updated and feel free to ask advice... I'll be watching the thread, and happy to help.
Sounds good. Keep us updated and feel free to ask advice... I'll be watching the thread, and happy to help.
Okay so today I ran in approx 80 degree weather, much cooler than yesterday.
18.8.15
60:00 - 6.7 (8:57) 148 HRav as:
1st 20:00 - 2.12 (9:25) 142 HRav
2nd 20:00 - 2.48 (8:05) 157 HRav
3rd 20:00 - 2.10 (9:30) 146 HRav
Today felt good. Even the 9:25 was amazing compared to yesterday, and the 8:04 pace felt like actual running! The "threshold" 20:00 felt pretty easy, and I def. could have kept up at that HR, not sure how long until pace would have slowed though.
19.8.15
60:00 - 6.3 (9:31) 148 HRav
20.8.15
REST
21.8.15
90:00 - 9.64 (9:20) 148 HRav
Today was cool and rainy. Felt great running so what was planned for 45:00 - 60:00 ended up just going to 90:00.
Looking good! If you had an easy time with the 20 min at 160 HR, try doing a bit more. Maybe something like
M : 30 - 60 min easy
T : start easy and build up to 160-165 HR, hold for 30 min
W : 30 - 60 min easy
R : same as T
F : short easy run (20 - 35 min) or off
S : 60 min easy w/ 5-10 strides at end
S : 90-120 min easy. If you feel good, do 30 min @ 160-165 HR near the end of the run.
Do you live somewhere with hills? How long/short are they?
Can you do doubles?
"Easy" in the schedule means < 150 HR. If you feel fresh, you can sit in the 145-150 range. But if you feel tired, try to stay < 145. It's fine to run very easy on M, W, F, and Sat (except for the strides). It's important to get in as much quality on T, R, and Sun... it's better to only be at 140 HR on M, W, F, and Sat if it means being fresh T, R, Sun such that you can sit at 145-150 HR during the "easy" portion and 160-165 HR during the 30 min efforts.
Same goes with the time ranges. If it says 30-60min easy and you feel fatigued at all... just do 30 min at a lower HR. You'll flush your legs out, not accumulate more stress, and still get that capillarization effect.
If you have an easy time with the above week, we can make some tweaks. Especially if you have some hills.
I don't have any really crazy hills unless I drive away from my house. But I can do that if need be. I have a very slow grade for about a 1/3 mile right near my house.
I might be able to get in some doubles, but I lift heavy on Mondays and Wednesdays so those days are probably out. I am also battling some lingering plantar fasciitis but it seems to be trending in a good direction. Seems like it's getting a little better every day.
I did another 155-160 for 20 minutes, as you will see in my log below. Once again it didn't feel too hard, maybe I will push it like you said to 160-165 for my next one. Just as you said, today I was a little tired from yesterday's long run so I kept my HR a little lower. Still it feels good to finally see an upward trend in my paces after those miserable first 2 weeks, haha.
22.8.15
45:00 - 5.31 (8:28) 150 HRav as:
1st 12:30 - 1.29 (9:41) 143 HRav
2nd 20:00 - 2.61 (7:39) 158 HRav
3rd 12:30 - 1.41 (8:54) 145 HRav
23.8.15
110:00 - 12.27 (8:58) 147 HRav
24.8.15
45:00 - 4.57 (9:51) 141 HRav
I also don't know why I did a threshold right before my long run, instead of on Friday. That was a mistake. My threshold runs will be T and F with a long run Sun from now on.
Ah, just reread this, so I should only do 1 threshold a week, and mix some higher HR into my long run? If so I will still do T threshold and R off, because that's what fits my schedule best. And then S as long run and potential threshold near end.
Thanks again for all your help and assistance!
And I just reread it a second time, I am an idiot. T and R thresholds. You think it's fine to take off R and do the 2nd on F? Or should I really try to have F be that potential OFF day?
Mostly, it'd be good to have some short, steep hills for hill sprints. Though you can (as mentioned below) use a treadmill with a gradient function. If you have some longer hills/mountains to run, that could be good for some of your Sat, Sun runs, too!
Try something like the week I posted above, and see how it goes. If it goes well, we could try phasing in doubles a few times per week to see how it goes (time and fatigue-wise). Are you set on M/W for the gym? I'd space it out more... maybe M/R or T/F. If we tweak the above schedule to work with T/F, I think that'd work really well with a light Friday for rest.
Be sure to keep an eye on this. Try to figure out if it's your shoes and get ones more suited to you if that is the case.
One thing you can do in order to help your plantar fascia is the following: sit in a chair and bring one foot up on the other leg's thigh. Take your thumbs and apply pressure to the fascia. While applying this pressure, flex/extend your toes.
If you have more time, read/follow this:
http://www.athletestreatingathletes.com/ata-blog/2013/01/plantar-fasciitis/Hey, it's all good! I wouldn't do it all the time or anything, but you only get better by accumulating some fatigue and mixing up your training.
You can do T/F this week and see how it goes. I would have one of your gym days be just gym and some strides afterwards... no focus on running. Then as you build up more in your base phase, drop that gym day for an OFF day (I like Friday, but we can easily work it into your schedule).
Do you think you could do something like the following schedule?
M - 30-60min easy
T - 20 min run warm up, then gym, finish up with strides or hill sprints (could do on treadmill with gradient up)
W - longish run (60-90 min) with threshold (160-165bpm)
R - 30-60min easy
F - gym followed by strides
S - longish run (60-90 min) at easy pace
S - long run with threshold (160-165bpm)
Also, remember to let the schedule follow you, and not you following the schedule. That is, if you have a threshold scheduled and you feel wasted, just take it easy that day.
Wow, great info!
I do have short steep hills fairly close 50m - 100m.
Generally when I hit the gym I will go at lunch (11:30 - 12:00, for about an hour), and then I will run later that night. I haven't had any problems with fatigue when doing this, so essentially I have been "doubling" every time that I gym.
The PF was just looked at by a PT this weekend, and I am going to get treatment for it, in the mean time I have been doing lots of stretching and rolling and it's been -generally- under control and on the mend I believe. Will check out that article you sent. Really it dates back to a workout that started it (I did not identify it as PF at the time as I forgot this was a thing since I had a 6 year break from running), and then I really worsened it when I did that 16:5x race in June. But yesterday even after the 12.27 it was pretty solid, so trending in the correct direction.
M - AM: GYM (LOWER) / PM: 30-60min easy
T - longish run (60-90 min) with threshold (160-165bpm)
W - AM: GYM (UPPER) / PM: 30-60 easy (hill sprints to finish)?
R - 30-45 Easy / OFF
F - longish run (60-90 min) at easy pace
S - 30-60min easy
S - long run with threshold (160-165bpm)
This is fairly close to what you suggested. I am not doing the same movement on the 2 gym sessions so I think from a fatigue stand point my muscles should be fine. The reason I really like R off is because most of the races I end up doing are on Sat. I found that taking off R and then an easy day F gets my legs feeling best for Sat, so I figured I would emulate this in my training. I would prefer not to change my lifting days because it's just a schedule I found that works for me ( I am back and forth a lot because of work, but these days are best, plus I feel my muscles are fully recovered by race time if needed as well). You think this schedule is good for a loose guideline, or you think yours is much better suited? Thanks again for all the time and help you put into your replies!!
The 50m - 100m hills are perfect! Since you have the PF issue right now, hold off on the hard hill efforts and stick to the strides. If those go well and your PT says good things, we can work in some hill sprints and longer hill work.
For the gym, I would *try* to space out the gym days by 2 instead of 1 so you can do legs twice per week (with adequate rest). For instance, M/R or T/F instead of M/W or T/R. If you just have an hour in the gym, focus on that leg lifting stuff and strides right after the workout. Focus on staying loose, smooth, and in-control during the strides. You can do any other core/upper strength work outside of the gym with body weight (I'd be happy to list some stuff).
If most of your races will be on Sat, then it certainly makes sense to train for that. Again, make the schedule follow you, not vice-versa. With that in mind, I'd move the long run for now to Sat (race day), essentially shifting what I wrote in the previous posts by 1 day:
M - gym, strides after // easy 30'
T - longish run with 160-165 HR
W - easy 30'-60'
R - gym, strides after // easy 30'
F - longish easy run
S - Long run with threshold
S - easy 30'-60'
After some time, that R gym day will get faded out, and T/F/Sat will get progressively harder from an endurance/LT standpoint. Then Friday will take on an easier roll w/ some strides to open up for Sat. But right now isn't race season... it's aerobic house building time, so you don't necessarily need R to be *super* easy in prep for a race on Sat.
I would run something like the above schedule for ~2 or 3 weeks based on how you're feeling (increase volume a little each week, including increased time at threshold), take a rest week (drop volume and intensity), and then switch some stuff up... evaluate how you're handling it on a whole, more doubles where possible, hill sprints, etc. But right now I'd keep that gradual transition in place until you get to +50mpw, after-which we do a 2400m test.
Awesome sounds great! I will incorporate this and keep posting every few days with my results.
Been a while since my last post. I accidentally lost my watch over the weekend so just ran slow and kept track of time. Found it today though so tomorrow I will be able to start tracking the HADD way again. This week's (the week I am listing now) LT run (160-165 @ 20 MIN) again felt fairly easy, but definitely harder than the 155-160, I think I will bump it up to 30 minutes at 160-165 this week and see how that feels. To "the haddite", does that sound good?
25.8.15
1st 20:00 - 2.05 (9:44) @ 144 HRav
2nd 20:00 - 2.60 (7:42) @ 164 HRav
3rd 20:00 - 2.05 (9:46) @ 147 HRav
Total: 1:00:00 - 6.69 - 1:00:01 (8:58) @ 151 HRav
26.8.15
45:00 - 4.66 (9:39) @ 141 HRav
27.8.15
REST
28.8.15
30:00 - 3.26 (9:12) @ 141 HRav
29.8.15
1:00:00 - Unknown Stats
30.8.15
1:00:00 - Unknown Stats
31.8.15
30:00 - Unknown Stats
Will try to post again by Thursday and keep doing this training. So far so good. Seems like the paces are coming down a bit finally.
HADDrunner wrote:I think I will bump it up to 30 minutes at 160-165 this week and see how that feels. To "the haddite", does that sound good?
Sounds good to me! I'd do a second day each week at 160-165 bpm, too. Did you try the strides after a gym day?
Yes! I will do a second day of the threshold as well- and the strides are feeling good. My PF is starting to really clear up now thankfully!
Awesome, super glad to hear it. Do a weekday 160-165 run, then a weekend one. On the other weekend day, do a long easy run. (I'd do Sat 160-165 and long easy Sun.)
Keep it up!
1.9.15
Lap Dist (mi) Time Avg (min/mi) Avg HR
1 1 9:41 9:41 139
2 1 9:51 9:51 143
3 0.05 0:27 9:31 145
4 1 7:29 7:29 162
5 1 7:42 7:42 164
6 1 8:11 8:11 165
7 0.91 6:37 7:18 165
8 1 9:58 9:58 146
9 1 9:14 9:14 146
10 0.09 0:45 8:56 146
Totals: 8.04 1:10:01 8:42 152
2.9.15
Lap Dist (mi) Time Avg (min/mi) Avg HR
1 1 10:19 10:19 134
2 1 9:55 9:55 140
3 1 9:54 9:54 140
4 1 9:47 9:47 142
5 1 9:58 9:58 144
6 1 9:31 9:31 143
7 0.06 0:34 9:11 141
Totals: 6.06 1:00:00 9:53 140
3.9.15
REST
4.9.15
Lap Dist (mi) Time Avg (min/mi) Avg HR
1 1 9:25 9:25 139
2 1 9:27 9:27 145
3 0.11 1:06 9:44 146
4 1 7:50 7:50 160
5 1 8:11 8:11 165
6 1 8:06 8:06 165
7 1 7:58 7:58 166
8 0.96 7:53 8:10 165
9 1 9:57 9:57 150
10 1 9:38 9:38 149
11 0.04 0:22 9:34 148
Totals: 9.12 1:20:00 8:46 155
Felt really good this morning so I did 40 minutes at 160-165, I am pretty confident I could go an entire hour at this pace, and with the exception of hills I didn't really slow down. Should I bump up the LT runs again or is it too soon?
Lookin good! You're definitely handling the 160-165 HR runs very well, with minimal cardiac drift. It's okay to let the pace slow on hills, so don't worry about that.
If you're feeling well overall (recovering well, not much fatigue) you might try doing 1 hour @ 160-165 HR next week. Are you still doing gym on M/W? I'd do a shorter 160-165 HR interval (~30min) on your longer mid-week run and then shoot for 1 hour @ 160-165 HR next Saturday (warm up, do the 160-165 HR bit, then finish slow for about 20min), then go long slow on Sunday.
Be sure to run long (easy) tomorrow (Sunday) if you can. If you feel really good, you can do the last 20 min at 165 HR.
5.9.15
Lap Dist (mi) Time Avg (min/mi) Avg HR
1 1 9:02 9:02 134
2 1 8:42 8:42 147
3 1 9:35 9:35 150
4 1 10:13 10:13 147
5 1 9:56 9:56 146
6 1 9:22 9:22 143
7 1 8:58 8:58 146
8 1 8:53 8:53 146
9 1 8:42 8:42 150
10 0.18 1:37 9:11 154
Totals: 9.18 1:25:05 9:16 145
Ran with my buddy who is marathon training today. Had a great run, set my alert for 155 but rarely needed it. Very hilly, Garmin (which seems to kind of under-estimate in my opinion) elevation was 646 ft. Generally my runs are more around 100 ft or so according to garmin. As you can see pace/HR relationship was MUCH better than it has been. Could be the very cool conditions of the morning we ran in too, which was nice.
Yes I am still doing the M/W lifts, and I will take your advice and try to stretch out the weekend threshold to an hour. I actually have a race 13.9 and 20.9 so that might have to wait unfortunately. Should I push the weekday threshold a little further since the next two weekends I won't have a threshold run? Thoughts? I know during HADD you're not really supposed to race much but without getting in to too much detail it's necessary for me to do these races.
It's great to see the paces starting to come down. Tomorrow will probably go out for 2 hours and will set my HR alert for 155 again since today ended up being a pretty easy run based on average HR!
Thanks!!!
HADDrunner wrote:
I know during HADD you're not really supposed to race much...
It's totally fine to do some races, just don't do a race every weekend and don't expect to be in top racing shape (that's not the goal right now).
HADDrunner wrote:
I will take your advice and try to stretch out the weekend threshold to an hour. I actually have a race 13.9 and 20.9 so that might have to wait unfortunately. Should I push the weekday threshold a little further since the next two weekends I won't have a threshold run?
Sure, that'd be fine. Do the gym work on M,W and then you can either do the longer threshold run on T or R. Do the other day (T if you do R, or R if you do T) as a longish easy run. Take F off (or a very easy jog), then run easy as long as you feel like on Sat with some strides at the end of the run (to open up the legs for Sun race).
If your legs are sore/beat up (from doing more elevation than you're used to), you might be a little conservative on the length of your threshold run during the week.
After your race on Sep 20, you might consider a rest week.
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