The SINGLE BEST WORKOUT for 5k/10k guys

Seppo Kaitenenn wrote:

The OP is really onto something here. While of course he didn't invent this workout, he did tweak Bowerman's 30/40 into basically a cruise interval session. As a prior poster pointed out, makes it more doable and allows the runner to get more work in as opposed to simply running to exhaustion. Canova says the best way to improve LT or MP is by doing fartleks with intervals over/under the threshold. This is just a more extreme version of his classic 1k on/1k off fartlek with the pace closely controlled on the track. With the hard 200s at 3k pace, you need to take the offs a little easier. But you don't jog them.

Centro Sr. had his son do a 3200m at 8:56 as 8x(300m@47/100m@20) basically 3k and just slower than marathon pace. This was in the context of a longer session. Some of the old school guys seem to understand the effectiveness of such workouts.

Jon Arne Glomsrud wrote:

Seppo Kaitenenn wrote:

The OP is really onto something here. While of course he didn't invent this workout, he did tweak Bowerman's 30/40 into basically a cruise interval session. As a prior poster pointed out, makes it more doable and allows the runner to get more work in as opposed to simply running to exhaustion. Canova says the best way to improve LT or MP is by doing fartleks with intervals over/under the threshold. This is just a more extreme version of his classic 1k on/1k off fartlek with the pace closely controlled on the track. With the hard 200s at 3k pace, you need to take the offs a little easier. But you don't jog them.

Centro Sr. had his son do a 3200m at 8:56 as 8x(300m@47/100m@20) basically 3k and just slower than marathon pace. This was in the context of a longer session. Some of the old school guys seem to understand the effectiveness of such workouts.

Well, as I calculate. if I am a 14min 5k runner, (2.48) my LT is approx 10% slower (3.05). The 200m on should be LT 200m time -5sec which is a 1k-pace 20sec faster than LT, which is 5k pace. So I am supposed to do 200m on@5k and then 200m off@LT+20 which is above MP. I think these are doable as fast LT intervall work. the ONs are short enough to maybe recover in the OFFs. The legwork is good, but the lactate will be lower than at 5k race so there need to be more specific 5k work in addition

Curious Cat wrote:

I believe that I have discovered the single best, and by best I mean most bang-for-your-buck, workout a 5k/10k can do, really at anytime throughout their season.

It is similar to Pre's 30/40 workout. I call them "Threshold-Fartlek Intervals". You take the runner's LT pace, the pace used for a standard 4 mile tempo run (LT) or tempo intervals and add/subtract 5 seconds to the pace for 200 meters, giving you your respective "on" and "off" splits.

For example, say a 14:00 5k guy typically does his tempo runs at 5:00 mile pace. This pace comes out to 37.5 seconds per 200 meters. So this runner's "on" pace would be about 32 seconds and an "off" pace 43 seconds per 200 meters. For simplicity sake, don't get hung up on decimals, round down for the "on" 200 and up for the "off" 200.

As for the format of the workout, I suggest treating it as you would a cruise/tempo interval session. The repetitions can be of 1000, 1600, 2000, and at the very longest 3200 meters in length. So the workout could be 6-8x1000, 4-6x1600, 3-5x2000, or 2-3x3200 all off 45 to 90 seconds rest depending on the runner's fitness.

The benefits of this workout are:

1. An overall "threshold" stimulus, like a standard tempo run (same heart rate zone)

2. The added turnover stimulus of the fast "on" 200's, at around mile pace

3. Learn the important skill/ teach the body to gear change, in a way that is realistic to races (changing gears while already tired and in the matter of a few steps)

4. Learn to listen to the body and finding the pace

I believe you will find that runners initially find this workout much more difficult than a standard tempo run ON THE LEGS, but AEROBICALLY about the same effort. I mean to say that the constant changing of paces will zap your legs the first few times you try, but the paces are manageable on your lungs and will feel like a tempo run. After a while, you can really tell that your legs and body have adapted and you can change paces with much greater ease, both in the workout and respond in races. You know you are really fit when this session feels comfortable.

Let me know what your thoughts are.

Curious Cat wrote:

I believe that I have discovered the single best, and by best I mean most bang-for-your-buck, workout a 5k/10k can do, really at anytime throughout their season.

It is similar to Pre's 30/40 workout. I call them "Threshold-Fartlek Intervals". You take the runner's LT pace, the pace used for a standard 4 mile tempo run (LT) or tempo intervals and add/subtract 5 seconds to the pace for 200 meters, giving you your respective "on" and "off" splits.

For example, say a 14:00 5k guy typically does his tempo runs at 5:00 mile pace. This pace comes out to 37.5 seconds per 200 meters. So this runner's "on" pace would be about 32 seconds and an "off" pace 43 seconds per 200 meters. For simplicity sake, don't get hung up on decimals, round down for the "on" 200 and up for the "off" 200.

As for the format of the workout, I suggest treating it as you would a cruise/tempo interval session. The repetitions can be of 1000, 1600, 2000, and at the very longest 3200 meters in length. So the workout could be 6-8x1000, 4-6x1600, 3-5x2000, or 2-3x3200 all off 45 to 90 seconds rest depending on the runner's fitness.

The benefits of this workout are:

1. An overall "threshold" stimulus, like a standard tempo run (same heart rate zone)

2. The added turnover stimulus of the fast "on" 200's, at around mile pace

3. Learn the important skill/ teach the body to gear change, in a way that is realistic to races (changing gears while already tired and in the matter of a few steps)

4. Learn to listen to the body and finding the pace

I believe you will find that runners initially find this workout much more difficult than a standard tempo run ON THE LEGS, but AEROBICALLY about the same effort. I mean to say that the constant changing of paces will zap your legs the first few times you try, but the paces are manageable on your lungs and will feel like a tempo run. After a while, you can really tell that your legs and body have adapted and you can change paces with much greater ease, both in the workout and respond in races. You know you are really fit when this session feels comfortable.

Let me know what your thoughts are.

Curious Cat wrote:

I believe that I have discovered the single best, and by best I mean most bang-for-your-buck, workout a 5k/10k can do, really at anytime throughout their season.

It is similar to Pre's 30/40 workout. I call them "Threshold-Fartlek Intervals". You take the runner's LT pace, the pace used for a standard 4 mile tempo run (LT) or tempo intervals and add/subtract 5 seconds to the pace for 200 meters, giving you your respective "on" and "off" splits.

For example, say a 14:00 5k guy typically does his tempo runs at 5:00 mile pace. This pace comes out to 37.5 seconds per 200 meters. So this runner's "on" pace would be about 32 seconds and an "off" pace 43 seconds per 200 meters. For simplicity sake, don't get hung up on decimals, round down for the "on" 200 and up for the "off" 200.

As for the format of the workout, I suggest treating it as you would a cruise/tempo interval session. The repetitions can be of 1000, 1600, 2000, and at the very longest 3200 meters in length. So the workout could be 6-8x1000, 4-6x1600, 3-5x2000, or 2-3x3200 all off 45 to 90 seconds rest depending on the runner's fitness.

The benefits of this workout are:

1. An overall "threshold" stimulus, like a standard tempo run (same heart rate zone)

2. The added turnover stimulus of the fast "on" 200's, at around mile pace

3. Learn the important skill/ teach the body to gear change, in a way that is realistic to races (changing gears while already tired and in the matter of a few steps)

4. Learn to listen to the body and finding the pace

I believe you will find that runners initially find this workout much more difficult than a standard tempo run ON THE LEGS, but AEROBICALLY about the same effort. I mean to say that the constant changing of paces will zap your legs the first few times you try, but the paces are manageable on your lungs and will feel like a tempo run. After a while, you can really tell that your legs and body have adapted and you can change paces with much greater ease, both in the workout and respond in races. You know you are really fit when this session feels comfortable.

Let me know what your thoughts are.

cats get killed by curiosity wrote:

i typically do a 20 minute workouts alternating between 30 seconds @ 3k and 30 seconds at 5k +5-10 seconds 2 weeks before a 10k race. If struggle, I generally know I need to revise my pace goal.good workout, mentally good too. Plus, the 200m you suggest versus my 30 seconds would be much easier to control and measure the pace so i'll give it a try.i like this type of thinking if it applies to continuous running and not intervals.another basic workout that fits into this line of logic is 3 x 400/800/1600 where you don't rest between segments and rest 2:00 minute jog between compound set. 400m @ 3k, 800m @ 5k, 1600m @ 10k. I remember the first time did this i tricked myself and ran them in 70/2:30/5:15-20 and felt very confident moving forward to a 10k race

Curious Cat wrote:

I forgot to stress the importance of hitting the splits for each 200. Much like a tempo run, if the pace is off, too fast or too slow, you lose the benefit of the workout.