List of Sub 4:00 American Juniors??

Reed Fischer?

Aussies. wrote:

Ya'll forgot Jordy THRILLIAMSZ. He was in high school still when he ran 3:36. And maybe Sam McEntee? It's hard to tell their ages

Williamsz was indeed 19 in high school, but the thread title says "American Juniors", so at the very least I suppose the OP only wants those with American citizenship (or at least those who ran it in an American institution).

Lenny Leonard wrote:

Critical Thinking wrote:

Ken Cormier.

Bobby Lockhart

Meb.

Yeah, i know. But someone brought up the other countries.

outdoors at least

Ryun

Webb

Liquori

Myers

Prefontaine

Richey

Schilling

Divine

Jennings

Danielson

Wheeler

indoors

Webb

Fernandez

Ryun

indoors oversized track

Erassa

Creese

maybe some others, not sure of their ages

runningart2004 wrote:

Still, when did he start running? If he started as a freshman then he has no more of an advantage than thousands of other HS seniors.

Alan

Given his genetic stock, I'd wager that Maton started earlier than most. Mom was NCAA XC champ, dad was 2x NCAA indoor champ.

Juniors/High School combined 1500/mile and sorted by age (youngest to oldest)

Green = High school

Blue = Junior by birth year

Gray = derived times

http://oi62.tinypic.com/1z53plj.jpg

Juniors/High School combined 1500/mile and sorted by time

http://oi59.tinypic.com/23vbww1.jpg

Downloadable spreadsheet

https://2008olympictrialsakatommyleonard.shutterfly.com/filecabinet/151/High%20School%20Milers.xlsx

It seems like a lot of people want to make it out as Maton trying to get in the limelight and using his age to his advantage. Can't we all just agree that this was a really good race for somebody Maton's age, but obviously not as impressive as those of Jim Ryun and the like? The guy had a dream to break 4 and he did. It's not his fault that he was 19 when he did it. I don't see how it makes anyone feel better to rag on his accomplishment.

malmo wrote:

Juniors/High School combined 1500/mile and sorted by age (youngest to oldest)

Green = High school

Blue = Junior by birth year

Gray = derived times

http://oi62.tinypic.com/1z53plj.jpg

]

Nevermind that link. I sorted by text which didn't give an accurate ranking by age.

Better: vvvvvvvv

We aren't trying to bring down Maton, but if you'll look at Malmo's list, you'll notice he is the exact same age that Ben Saarel was when he ran .4 seconds faster equivalent last year as a college freshman. There was no hype surrounding that, and if I recall the Letsrun.com post race interview with Saarel at outdoor nats, they asked him about his "disappointing season". The fact of the matter is that at that age, one year makes a big difference.

McGorty

C eh? N eh? D eh? wrote:

HardLoper wrote:

I think Kevin Sullivan ran sub 4 as a 19 year old high schooler

Duh, Canada has 13 grades.

NO Canada does not. The Province of Ontario does. So kids in high school in the Province of Ontario could easily be 19. Also to consider is those Ontario kids age as Freshmen in college.

You Hoser.

Djdfjffff wrote:

We aren't trying to bring down Maton, but if you'll look at Malmo's list, you'll notice he is the exact same age that Ben Saarel was when he ran .4 seconds faster equivalent last year as a college freshman. There was no hype surrounding that, and if I recall the Letsrun.com post race interview with Saarel at outdoor nats, they asked him about his "disappointing season". The fact of the matter is that at that age, one year makes a big difference.

Agreed.

A year difference at that age is massive. Six months is huge. Four months is big.

I think sub-4 in HS has a very different but still important meaning compared to sub-4 under-19. When a runner goes under 4, we start to ask what more could that runner accomplish, and that's when we start to look at age and training at the time of performance. The under 19 list speaks to part of that (the training aspect tends to be ignored in these discussions, which is a shame). High school status at the time of performance is, to me, less important to overall potential. But I think the sub-4 HS list is still important because it's such a great motivator to all other HS milers. It's extremely rare to even approach that time, but the kids know it's possible. Knowing it's possible is essential.

Djdfjffff wrote:

We aren't trying to bring down Maton, but if you'll look at Malmo's list, you'll notice he is the exact same age that Ben Saarel was when he ran .4 seconds faster equivalent last year as a college freshman. There was no hype surrounding that, and if I recall the Letsrun.com post race interview with Saarel at outdoor nats, they asked him about his "disappointing season". The fact of the matter is that at that age, one year makes a big difference.

Being trained for a year under arguably the BEST college distance coach in the country makes an even bigger difference, but I doubt anyone is going to bash Saarel for having the "advantage" of being Wetmore-coached.

I'm curious to know of the 6 to break four who did it alone without a rabbit

hatzl wrote:

I'm curious to know of the 6 to break four who did it alone without a rabbit

Ryun ran wire to wire to win the Kansas State Meet in 3:58. Ryan also had the audacity to take it to Snell from over 300m out when he ran 3:55.

The rest were towed along.

Interesting to note that in 1964, as a 17 yo Ryun was finishing races in 53s on cinder tracks. Whoa!

ontario doesn't even have it any more. they finally figured out that they could waste money more effectively in other areas such as wind energy and scrapping gas plants, so decided to focus on that and let the students go to university at 18 like the rest of the world