List of Sub 4:00 American Juniors??

The fools that are "arguing" are too stupid to realize that age records are already kept. HS, Frosh, Soph, JR, SR; College, Frosh, Soph, JR, SR; Junior, Masters;

What the fools are arguing that age records ONLY be recognized by everyone: Age Groups, 21-25, 26-30, etc.; Single Age, 18,19, 20, 21, ... 100.

Perspective wrote:

According to these message boards there must be hundreds so I'm looking forward to finding the list.

You're retarded. No one is saying that there should be hundreds of Juniors breaking 4:00. The only thing being said is that Maton is old for a high schooler. Way old. So old that you 2ould be hard pressed to name any others who competed in hs as 19 year olds.

Quit being silly.

Perspective wrote:

Since the age debate is going strong and the claim of there being tons of college freshman going sub 4 I'm curious how many have actually done it. Does anybody have a list available of all the sub 4 milers that ran their first one as a Junior? You just can't turn 20 in that calender year right? According to these message boards there must be hundreds so I'm looking forward to finding the list.

I think you're missing the point of most of the folks posting on this topic. I think most people agree that Maton ran a great race and a great time. At issue are 1) focusing on the fact that he is a "high school athlete" 2) he is 19. If Maton had progressed academically in the same time frame as many posting on these boards he would've been a sophomore in college. If a college sophomore runs a 3:59 or a 3:41 do you think it would be so news worthy? Proabably not, unless they also won a tittle (NCAA or Junior) at the same time. That's the point, the only reason this seems like a big deal / news worthy is because he is still in high school and he is a US born athlete....hopefully this doesn't encourage other parents to hold their kids back in school so they can get attention for times.

Houston McTear wrote:

. So old that you 2ould be hard pressed to name any others who competed in hs as 19 year olds.

.

Ken Cormier.

I think Kevin Sullivan ran sub 4 as a 19 year old high schooler

So where is there a list of Juniors who have broken 4? If being 19 makes it easier and less legitimate, than I want to see how common it is.

Bobby Lockhart

Critical Thinking wrote:

Houston McTear wrote:

. So old that you 2ould be hard pressed to name any others who competed in hs as 19 year olds.

.

Ken Cormier.

I do not know what constitudes a junior. But here is the "under 19" (before 19th birthday, not year in which you turn 19) list:

USA

1. 3:53.43 Alan Webb

2. 3:55.02 German Fernandez

3. 3:55.3 Jim Ryun

4. 3:58.6 Marc Schilling

5. 3:58.84 Kirubel Erassa

6. 3:58.94 Robby Creese

7. 3:59.1 Roscoe Divine

8. 3:59.3 Marty Liquori

9. 3:59.4 Tim Danielson

CAN

3:59.48 Mike Woods

3:58.08 Marc Olesen

3:59.85 Nathan Brannen

GBR

3:55.82 Graham Williamson

3:57.03 Steve Cram

3:57.90 Charlie Grice

3:58.22 David Taylor

3:59.4 Steve Ovett

A few others...

3:55.9 Simon Malibeng (RSA)

3:59.1 Christian Nicolau (FRA)

3:59.7 Bennie Greyling (RSA)

3:59.71 Lukas Verzbicas (LTU)

3:59.84 Jaques van Rensburg (RSA)

this is a good list.

but there must be more

Do you have a similar list for 19 and under 1500 meter times (sub 3:42s)? I would think there would be quite a few more athletes on that list since it's a more commonly run distance.

That is wrong, he would be a college freshman. Most graduate at 18 thus he would be 19 during track season as a freshman.

Still, when did he start running? If he started as a freshman then he has no more of an advantage than thousands of other HS seniors.

Alan

We'd need a list of all runners 19 and under who ran under 4 or the 1500m equivalentWhich in return is probably a much longer list than this, but thanks for posting it though!

US top ten performances and performers, per TFN

1500 METERS

3:36.1 Jim Ryun (Kansas) 07/17/66

3:37.5 Tom Byers (Ohio St) 07/24/74

3:37.9 ——Byers 06/22/74

3:38.26 Alan Webb (Virginia HS) 05/27/01

3:38.50 ——Webb 06/23/01

3:39.00 German Fernandez (Oklahoma St) 06/13/09

3:39.0 ——Ryun (Kansas HS) 06/28/64

3:39.3 ——Ryun 06/04/66

3:39.8 ——Byers 06/28/74

3:40.49 John Trautmann (Georgetown) 05/30/87

**10 performances by 5 performers**

3:40.54 Gabe Jennings (Stanford) 06/04/98

3:40.64 Earl Jones (Eastern Michigan) 06/04/83

3:40.87 Austin Mudd (Wisconsin) 04/29/12

3:41.09 Robby Andrews (Virginia) 05/16/10

3:41.24 Evan Jager (Wisconsin) 05/04/08

MILE

3:51.3 Jim Ryun (Kansas) 07/17/66

3:53.43 Alan Webb (Virginia HS) 05/27/01

3:53.7 ——Ryun 06/04/66

3:55.02i German Fernandez (Oklahoma St) 02/28/09

3:55.3 ——Ryun (Kansas HS) 06/27/65

3:55.8 ——Ryun 04/23/66

3:56.50i ——Fernandez 01/24/09

3:56.8 ——Ryun 06/04/65

3:57.06 Dub Myers (Oregon) 05/14/83

3:57.4 Steve Prefontaine (Oregon) 06/05/70

**10 performances by 5 performers**

3:58.6 Jerry Richey (Pitt) 06/01/68

3:58.7 Mark Schilling (San Jose St) 06/09/73

3:58.84i Kirubel Erassa (Oklahoma St) 03/03/12

3:58.94i Robby Creese (Penn St) 03/03/12

3:59.1 Roscoe Divine (Oregon)

That's 17 at or under 3:41.24 or 3:59.1

Add Maton, Danielson, and Liquori for sure. There have been many college freshmen under 4:00/3:42.2, but I'm not sure which were juniors.

CAN

Justyn Knight 3:59.51i

USA

I remember Ryan Travis of Arkansas running 3:59 indoors as a freshman

steve prefontaine?

From IAAF's archived yearly lists (1999-2014) we can add-

13 3:41.54 Ben SAAREL 8 MAR 1995 USA USA 1r1 Azusa, CA 18 APR 2014

So we're up to 21.

Pre's already on there.

We have to remove the athletes that did it at a "HS" age which would include German Fernandez since he was under 19 with his first sub 4. Should Ryan Hall and Grant Fisher be added to the under 19 list with there 3:42? That would make it 8 total.

It's only relative to Americans also so far we have 8 that did it under 19 and 15 that did at the age of 19? I wouldn't call 15 athletes a very long list. Can anyone confirm these guys above were actually 19 when they did ran their sub 4?

HardLoper wrote:

I think Kevin Sullivan ran sub 4 as a 19 year old high schooler

Duh, Canada has 13 grades.

Critical Thinking wrote:

Houston McTear wrote:

. So old that you 2ould be hard pressed to name any others who competed in hs as 19 year olds.

.

Ken Cormier.

Very rare indeed. I rest my case.