Altitude Altitude altitude

There's something to be said for the altitude trained teams.... Colorado, Adams, NAU, Western... Good coaches training and athletes, yes... but you can't discount the altitude factor.

The largest advantage of altitude is that you can not run fast. This helps make smart coaches because they are staying off of the track and doing far more base stuff. Speed always kills and you can not do it at altitude.

Then how do you explain Wisconsin, top 2 the last 2 years? Butler? Stanford? Duke women? Michigan? Arkansas? I dont think any of those schools are at altitude.

92 Colorado ALTITUDE

96 Wisconson

206 Arkansas

249 Butler

254 BYU ALTITUDE

276 Stanford

286 Iona

323 Arizona State

338 Nmexico ALTITUDE

340 Cal Poly

Yes sir. Low altitude is the way to go.

92 Colorado ALTITUDE

96 Wisconson

206 Arkansas

249 Butler

254 BYU ALTITUDE

276 Stanford

286 Iona

323 Arizona State

338 Nmexico ALTITUDE

340 Cal Poly

In fairness to both arguments, there are considerably more low-altitude colleges than high-altitude colleges, so you should expect to see more low-altitude teams on the list above. But, I also believe that many of the benefits to living and training at altitude are based on living there for many years. so I don't think it is as much a factor as some have argued it to be on this board.

Within 48 hours of entering a high altitude (low O2) environment, the body begins producing more red blood cells. After about two weeks of living in that environment, one's RBC count can remain elevated for as much as 90 days - the average life of an RBC.

The elevated RBC count provides a boost in performance, but obviously the increased count raises blood viscosity, so it cannot increase forever. Still, it does seem that there are advantages to living and training at altitude for many years for which I have yet to read a sound explanation.

That doesnt explain the dominance of the Japanese marathoners over the last 15 years, particularly the women, most of which train in Japan. Bob Kennedy acknowledged his training was not at altitude. Lima of Brazil did not train at altitude. Give me a runner who trained at altitude and I give you one that is just as good that did not. If altitude training was the sole answer, Kennedy would have been further ahead at NY Marathon before dropping out, since he trained at altitude for the marathon.

Also, Colorado State didnt do too well at nationals, Air Force wasnt there, Montana, Idaho?

Another boring post on how many red blood cells I produce while 48, 24, *eeep* *REEEEE* days, hours, minutes at altitude because it changes with and speed doesn't help at altitude, wait it helps and can't eat too much spaghetti, get drunk faster at altitude because lack of brain cells, who's got the best training system. Run slow at altitude on your easy days so you recover, run faster on your workout days, but never Kill yourself so that you can't do a workout in 3 days *eeep* *REEREER*

Before 6 weeks of altitude - 4 miles 18:53

After 6 weeks of altitude - 8k 23:25

Red cells, white cells, blue cells, eat cells, cheap cells, heavy cells, run cells.

Japan is an extremely mountainous country, there must be some decent places to train at altitude some where on the islands.

I'd stick my neck out and say that altitude was the MAJOR contributing factor in any success I had.

You are right wrote:

The largest advantage of altitude is that you can not run fast.

This has to be the stupidest post I have ever or will ever see. In a sport where time is the standard by which winners are separated from losers, the inability to run fast is beneficial. Do me a favor and put down the crack pipe, sober up, and then read some training theory. You may want to look into the theory of training low and living high before you make another asinine statement like the bombshell you just dropped.

I think what he means is that you can't train at high intesnity so it forces you to focus on increasing aerobic capacity. By "not running fast" you can keep workouts controlled and avoid injury easier whereas running fast every day will tear you down. Running in altitude forces you to use recovery days to actually RECOVER.

Sorry to burst your bubble but most of the Japanese marathoners train in Boulder starting from about now until the end of September. Boulder is overrun with Japanese marathoners - in fact there are more elite Japanese runners in Boulder than there are elite Americans.

alex wrote:

That doesnt explain the dominance of the Japanese marathoners over the last 15 years, particularly the women, most of which train in Japan.

MensRacing: For whatever reason, Kim never pushed training at altitude. Is it a big regret in your career that you never went up into the mountains until late in your career?

Bob Kennedy: A big regret would be too strong of a description. Do I wonder if it would have helped? Sure. You would have to check the statistics, but I think I’m the only athlete to run under 13:00 for 5K who didn’t train at altitude. I went where I thought the best situation for me was at the time. And that was Kim McDonald’s group of Kenyans in [Melbourne] Australia, Palo Alto and Teddington [outside of London].

http://www.mensracing.com/athletes/interviews/2006/bobkennedy030706.htm

This interview I think shows that where you live for training should be based on comfort and where you feel you will become the best athlete. If living at altitude is what works best for you as an athlete then that is where you should live. A lot of athletes train and live at sea level for a good portion of the year and then go to altitude for short stints of 2-3 weeks before major competitions (ex. Mottram).

CU Kickoff Classic

>>5. Misaki Onishi 21 F 1st 20-29 1st 16:38 5:22

>> 6. Misaki Katsumata 20 F 2nd 20-29 2nd 16:42 5:23

>> 7. Yoshimi Ozaki 25 F 3rd 20-29 3rd 16:46 5:24

8. Tim Flamer 39 M 5th 30-39 4th 16:50 5:25

>> 9. Yuka Kakimi 20 F 4th 20-29 4th 17:05 5:30

10. Phillip Schumacher 26 M 6th 20-29 1st 17:09 5:32

11. Kevin McGouldrick 30 M 7th 30-39 5th 17:32 5:39

>> 12. Nozomi Iijima 22 F 5th 20-29 5th 17:57 5:47

Pearl Street Mile

1. Luminita Talpos Boulder CO 32 4:55

>> 2. Nanae Kuwashiro Boulder CO 23 4:59

>> 3. Saori Makishima Boulder CO 20 5:08

>> 4. Chise Miyazaki Boulder CO 25 5:09

>> 5. Katsuko Kanno Boulder CO 26 5:14

>> 6. Kayoko Obata Boulder CO 34 5:17

3K

>> 1. Sayuri Baba Kashiwa Japan 24 9:54 5:19

>> 2. Satomi Takahashi Kashiwa Japan 23 10:07 5:26

3. Colleen De Reuck Boulder CO 42 10:10 5:28

>> 4. Nanae Kuwashiro Boulder CO 23 10:12 5:28

5. Patty Murray Boulder CO 40 10:14 5:30

6. Tanya Christiane Poel Boulder CO 40 10:21 5:33

>> 7. Kayoko Obata Boulder CO 34 10:22 5:34

>> 8. Nozomi Iijima Kashiwa Japan 22 10:33 5:40

>> 9. Saori Makishima Boulder CO 20 10:35 5:41

Lots of variety of opinions on this subject. Foolish to say you can't do fast training at altitude, because you can actually run faster, as a result of the less-dense air. I assume what people are saying about "can't run fast" is that your intervals and threshold runs are not as fast, which is true. I agree, you gotta like where you are training, and if that is altitude, fine, but if not at altitude, then that may not be the place to be. I had a group of 6 elite runners run 14 PBs after 6 weeks of altitude training. Maybe they would have run 10 or maybe 20 if they had trained those same 6 weeks at sea level. Benoit never trained at altitude, and did pretty well. Brian Diemer never trained at altitude and did pretty well. Maybe they would have done better with altitude training, maybe not. I have seen elite athletes train at altitude and have zero (as in 0.0) change in blood profiles. Some groups (or individuals) see increases, others don't. I have seen guys (and women) improve dramatically after a few weeks at altitude, and without ever going there again, continue to improve for several years (so much for you only have a few weeks to take advantage of any altitude benefits). I coach runners who live at various altitudes (some as high as 13,500 feet in Peru), and coach some who live in Kenya and there is definitely a differenece in attitude about running. Maybe that has been the problem -- a confusion regarding these two words that can often be misspelled -- altitude and attitude. Maybe some programs are located at the best attitude and that attracts others to go there and before you know it, people start thinking that you will run better if you are at the right attitude, when in fact it was the better runners just being them selves -- better.

Nice comment about "attitude", Jack. My guess is that runners at altitude learn quickly to discard the watch and run more by feel. Hence, a different "attitude", one that pays many dividends, both in racing and in training.

alex wrote:

Give me a runner who trained at altitude and I give you one that is just as good that did not.

Good luck. Even Kennedy admits that he was the only sub 13 guy at the time that didn't train at altitude.

These posts always annoy me. Trust me, you train the same at altitude as you do at sea level for the most part. The only difference is your times are a little slower since race times are going to be slower. Just because you live at altitude doesn't mean you have to just do a lot of base or you can't run fast. The effects of altitude and training at altitude is way over-analyzed on here.

you may look at team wise at ncaa nats but i think if you take top 7 individuals from the mtn region. they are 1st or second. just for a different look on things.