Rita Jeptoo's B sample confirms positive doping test

Reread again the first posts by "Link" and "just sayin". They talk about Kenyans in the 90s, and the recent marathon success being purely fueled by EPO.How does it make sense that in cycling EPO was global, yet in running, EPO was Kenya's guarded secret weapon as far back as the 90's.I'm not up in arms about Russia, because there is evidence of state sponsored support, even extending into the IAAF.Similarly in cycling, Lance's infrastructure extended to the UCI, and much of the peleton relied on the services of Italian, and Spanish doctors.We can believe these things because of supporting and corroborating evidence.However, the quantity and quality of evidence against Kenya is lacking.All you give me are statements of faith: "I believe it is the tip of the iceberg". Except you seem to accept it as "given".If there is an iceberg, why didn't Hajo Seppelt, or anyone else, find it yet? It could be an iceberg, or it could be a recent phenomena, local to some mediocre athletes.The reason we can't say more precisely, is lack of knowledge and evidence.I'm asking for reasons to believe, not for more unfounded beliefs.

trollism wrote:

Ok, second only to Russia.

Given the filth list is only the tip of the iceberg, I would say a lot more than 25 Kenyans during that time period were eeping it up.

I take it you're up in arms about the idea that Russia might have a doping problem too, or are you only an apologist for certain countries?

Shame on her! Despite taking EPO, she could not get within 3 minutes of my WR--Proof that you do not need drugs.

Professional running is now officially a joke. There is no point to it. The results have no meaning.

rekrunner wrote:

and "just sayin".

He's a troll. He just posts for reactions. No need to pay attention.

It will never be, "only" because of EPO. The Kenyan runners are very talented without it given their body structure. They also have much more focus on the sport than the rest of the world, given that it is a way towards a better life. Honestly I think that without EPO, most east Africans are still winning the race just because of the late 2 variables. The EPO is affecting course and world records however

You think it was the late 90's?? This started in the 70's. Right after EPO was reviewed in academic literature (1968).

Jeff Wigand wrote:

rekrunner wrote:

and "just sayin".

He's a troll. He just posts for reactions. No need to pay attention.

Just stating the obvious

I can understand your reaction as you probably believe it's a conspiracy theory of

mine

Namely:east african athletes used a new undetectable performance enhancing

drug during the 90s and this was reflected in the sudden change in track distance performances at the time

just sayin wrote:

Jeff Wigand wrote:

He's a troll. He just posts for reactions. No need to pay attention.

Just stating the obvious

I can understand your reaction as you probably believe it's a conspiracy theory of

mine

Namely:east african athletes used a new undetectable performance enhancing

drug during the 90s and this was reflected in the sudden change in track distance performances at the time

Even more belief without evidence. When I look out my window it´s obvious that the earth is flat.

rekrunner wrote:

And Mo did his research in the 90's? How much did Lance pay Ferrari? $650 per shot? What about gifts to The UCI?

Where did the poor Kenyans of the 90's store their $650 EPO?

I don't want to estimate anything, but ask for credible support for incredible speculation. You are providing me speculation to support speculation.

Out of curiosity, what would constitute credible support for such claims, shy of a positive test? If the poster you are responding to knew where it was being stored, would you then ask how those storage units were afforded? And if there was an answer to that was provided, would you have a question regarding the process going even further back? I'm all for being critical of unfounded speculation, but I'm not interested in demanding an eye to the details of minutiae when there are reasonably broad claims that can be made in the absence of those little details.

idiot alert,. wrote:

just sayin wrote:

Just stating the obvious

I can understand your reaction as you probably believe it's a conspiracy theory of

mine

Namely:east african athletes used a new undetectable performance enhancing

drug during the 90s and this was reflected in the sudden change in track distance performances at the time

Even more belief without evidence. When I look out my window it´s obvious that the earth is flat.

The overwhelming evidence points to widespread doping by East Africans from the early nineties up until present day.

It's those that continue to make excuses for them that are on the level with the 'flat earthers'.

Can you give some concrete examples of overwhelming evidence dating back to the 90s? Can anyone?Can you also quantify or clarify what you think "widespread" means?

trollism wrote:

The overwhelming evidence points to widespread doping by East Africans from the early nineties up until present day.

It's those that continue to make excuses for them that are on the level with the 'flat earthers'.

rekrunner wrote:

Can you give some concrete examples of overwhelming evidence dating back to the 90s? Can anyone?

Can you also quantify or clarify what you think "widespread" means?

trollism wrote:

The overwhelming evidence points to widespread doping by East Africans from the early nineties up until present day.

It's those that continue to make excuses for them that are on the level with the 'flat earthers'.

If it were Russians (white people?) who suddenly went crazy on the world records at the birth of EPO (I mean early 90s) you wouldn't have a doubt.

Just because it's Africans you're still tearfully defending them.

The 90s was the EPO era, since the test things became more difficult but still doable.

African distance runners have benefited throughout this time.

Given the sheer domination by East africans for multiple decades, by a large quantity of athletes, certainly if doping were a factor, some more positive tests at the top would support a claim.But I don't place so much weight on positive tests, or the minutia you fear, because even positives may have a story behind that is different than the knee-jerk reflexes.If someone claims that Kenyans and Ethiopians were doping in the 90s, I am interested in any corroborating evidence. All I see is personal opinions and beliefs, and sometimes the mathematical appeal to race times and records, or the link to some Italian agent or coach. Is that it? Is that the whole basis for words like "widespread" or "rampant"? People chose words for a reason -- i want the reasons.Earlier I asked for infrastructure. If it is system wide doping, where is the system?For example, can we compare Kalenjins to East German women, or Ma's army?Lance was never convicted for his positive tests, but there was no shortage of ex-teammates, ex-employees, ex-friends, competitors, and even a former American hero, not to mention suspicious results covered up, and the famous retesting of 1999 samples, painting a consistent story.But with Kenyans, East Africans, or even distance running in general, I'm looking for something, anything, that would corroborate some of these opinions and beliefs, that are expressed. Why does anyone think track is as dirty as cycling was?Compare the current Hajo Seppelt's documentary of the Russian doping, versus the Kenyan report in 2012. They seem to be sitting on mountains of evidence for the Russians, not able to air it all in three installments, but in Kenya, Seppelt found one doctor willing to take his money, and another pharmacist also willing to take his money. Is that it? If there is an iceberg, where is it?

themanontherun wrote:

Out of curiosity, what would constitute credible support for such claims, shy of a positive test? If the poster you are responding to knew where it was being stored, would you then ask how those storage units were afforded? And if there was an answer to that was provided, would you have a question regarding the process going even further back? I'm all for being critical of unfounded speculation, but I'm not interested in demanding an eye to the details of minutiae when there are reasonably broad claims that can be made in the absence of those little details.

Link wrote:

I'm starting to wonder if Canova is saying exactly the opposite of what's true about top Kenyans: That their superiority these last 20 years is due only to the fact that they get a bigger boost from EPO and other PEDs - kind of like Lance may have. All the riders were doped, but, before Lance started with EPO, he was an only slightly better than average TdF rider. Before the EPO era, Kenya had its share of distance running elites, but not 90 of the top 100 marathoners, or, whatever the heck it is right now. Maybe it was all a drug fueled illusion.

Of course Canova is a liar.

Actually, Lance was an outstanding rider by the time he was a senior in HS. The he became much better. EPO allowed the rest of the world to catch up to him.

While not all E. Africans are doped, a large percentage of their world beaters over the years have been. Seen any sub 13:00 second 5k's to finish off a slow starting 10k lately? LOL. Geb, Komen, Bekele, scores of drug fueled performances aided by the fact that the E. Africans did not have to endure out of season drug testing. The malfeasance of Dr. Rosa, Hermans, Canova and others may have come close to ruining the sport. The improved testing has had some effect. Look at the drop in numbers of sub 13 and sub 27 runners from E. Africa. The marathon may get hit big by testing, although it's possible that the distance is perfect for the guys putting the record farther and farther into the Outer Limits.

If things are ever cleaned up, the E. Africans will probably have the largest group of talented runners, but there will be others fully capable of challenging and beating them at the highest levels. A more level playing field. Right now, even with all the revelations and "sacrificial lambs" being tossed up, the fact is the cheating coaches and managers are able to keep their charges away from out of season tests / spot tests.

rekrunner wrote:

How does that make sense? East African runners had better doctors than the rest of the world?

LOL

Typical disingenuous garbage. The drugs are supplied BY people like Dr. Rosa, other nefarious characters. And EPO isn't that expensive. Hell, it's available from "sponsors" on bodybuilding sites. LOL

Daschund Man wrote:

It will never be, "only" because of EPO. The Kenyan runners are very talented without it given their body structure. They also have much more focus on the sport than the rest of the world, given that it is a way towards a better life. Honestly I think that without EPO, most east Africans are still winning the race just because of the late 2 variables. The EPO is affecting course and world records however

The E. Africans would have a large percentage of top runners but you wouldn't see the domination that has been in place since 1990. That's if say Europeans and others regain interest in the sport.

Link wrote:

I'm starting to wonder if Canova is saying exactly the opposite of what's true about top Kenyans: That their superiority these last 20 years is due only to the fact that they get a bigger boost from EPO and other PEDs - kind of like Lance may have. All the riders were doped, but, before Lance started with EPO, he was an only slightly better than average TdF rider. Before the EPO era, Kenya had its share of distance running elites, but not 90 of the top 100 marathoners, or, whatever the heck it is right now. Maybe it was all a drug fueled illusion.

And how did Galen beat all the E. Africans in the olympics? No doped E. Africans at the Olympics?

How did Solinsky go to to toe, and beat the large majority of E. Africans at 5k when he was kicking butt?

How did Mottram dominate them for a year or 2?

Just wondering, were all these non-african guys clean?

And how did some of the East Africans beat some of the other East Africans? And how come Lance didn't win every stage of every tour? And how come he finished third that last time? And how come the records keep getting faster?

I hope for your sake that you're trolling me....

Mottram was dirty. NOP is probably more about ethics than legality.