I'm starting to wonder if Canova is saying exactly the opposite of what's true about top Kenyans: That their superiority these last 20 years is due only to the fact that they get a bigger boost from EPO and other PEDs - kind of like Lance may have. All the riders were doped, but, before Lance started with EPO, he was an only slightly better than average TdF rider. Before the EPO era, Kenya had its share of distance running elites, but not 90 of the top 100 marathoners, or, whatever the heck it is right now. Maybe it was all a drug fueled illusion.
Source?Yeah, thought not.
Link wrote:
I'm starting to wonder if Canova is saying exactly the opposite of what's true about top Kenyans: That their superiority these last 20 years is due only to the fact that they get a bigger boost from EPO and other PEDs - kind of like Lance may have. All the riders were doped, but, before Lance started with EPO, he was an only slightly better than average TdF rider. Before the EPO era, Kenya had its share of distance running elites, but not 90 of the top 100 marathoners, or, whatever the heck it is right now. Maybe it was all a drug fueled illusion.
The East Africans have been on EPO since the early 90s
How else were they beating the doped up Moroccans and Spanish?
gamer chick wrote:
Source?
Yeah, thought not.
Link wrote:I'm starting to wonder if Canova is saying exactly the opposite of what's true about top Kenyans: That their superiority these last 20 years is due only to the fact that they get a bigger boost from EPO and other PEDs - kind of like Lance may have. All the riders were doped, but, before Lance started with EPO, he was an only slightly better than average TdF rider. Before the EPO era, Kenya had its share of distance running elites, but not 90 of the top 100 marathoners, or, whatever the heck it is right now. Maybe it was all a drug fueled illusion.
Source for what? That Lance doped? That EPO use was common, perhaps necessary among the peloton in TdF? That Canova argued that the top Kenyans didn't dope because it wouldn't help them?? Which of these commonly acknowledged truths do you need sources for?
How does that make sense? East African runners had better doctors than the rest of the world?
How about finding some infrastructure behind? Who is supplying these Africans with dope?We know Lance could afford his own program. How do all these Africans afford it?You can wonder all you want, but your theory is less credible than what its trying to replace. Think about it and then dig up some data to support your wonders.
Link wrote:
gamer chick wrote:Source?
Yeah, thought not.
Source for what? That Lance doped? That EPO use was common, perhaps necessary among the peloton in TdF? That Canova argued that the top Kenyans didn't dope because it wouldn't help them?? Which of these commonly acknowledged truths do you need sources for?
rekrunner wrote:
How about finding some infrastructure behind? Who is supplying these Africans with dope?
We know Lance could afford his own program. How do all these Africans afford it?
Mo Trafeh bought EPO in Morocco for $650 and learned how to dose himself from his own research.
http://www.usada.org/wp-content/uploads/AAA-decision-Trafeh-December-2014.pdfTrafeh never tested positive and passed at least 21 drug tests.
http://www.letsrun.com/news/2014/12/mo-trafeh-drug-cheat-liar/I think you are overestimating how much money and infrastructure EPO takes. Even a poor Kenyan could win some prize money in the US or Europe and afford EPO. Or an unscrupulous coach or agent could supply it expecting to make it back from the athlete's winnings. It's not that hard.
rekrunner wrote:
How about finding some infrastructure behind? Who is supplying these Africans with dope?
We know Lance could afford his own program. How do all these Africans afford it?
You can wonder all you want, but your theory is less credible than what its trying to replace. Think about it and then dig up some data to support your wonders.
Stacks and stacks of East Africans on the filth list.
They're 'affording' it somehow.
trollism wrote:
rekrunner wrote:How about finding some infrastructure behind? Who is supplying these Africans with dope?
We know Lance could afford his own program. How do all these Africans afford it?
You can wonder all you want, but your theory is less credible than what its trying to replace. Think about it and then dig up some data to support your wonders.
Stacks and stacks of East Africans on the filth list.
They're 'affording' it somehow.
It's very easy for East African runner to get/take drugs, the don' thave to know anything (though they might know lots). It's all done through their managers, who then take obscenely large cuts of their winnings.
rekrunner wrote:
How about finding some infrastructure behind? Who is supplying these Africans with dope?
We know Lance could afford his own program. How do all these Africans afford it?
Not to instigate but Germany seems to have something to do with this. Isn't there a certain big shoe company in Germany that sponsors a lot of African runners and funny it also seems to be people from the German press exposing it as well.
rekrunner wrote:
How does that make sense? East African runners had better doctors than the rest of the world?
Where do you think it is easier to get EPO without a prescription - Kenya or the U.S.?
And Mo did his research in the 90's? How much did Lance pay Ferrari? $650 per shot? What about gifts to The UCI?Where did the poor Kenyans of the 90's store their $650 EPO?I don't want to estimate anything, but ask for credible support for incredible speculation. You are providing me speculation to support speculation.
Fritz the janitor wrote:
rekrunner wrote:How about finding some infrastructure behind? Who is supplying these Africans with dope?
We know Lance could afford his own program. How do all these Africans afford it?
Mo Trafeh bought EPO in Morocco for $650 and learned how to dose himself from his own research.
http://www.usada.org/wp-content/uploads/AAA-decision-Trafeh-December-2014.pdfTrafeh never tested positive and passed at least 21 drug tests.
http://www.letsrun.com/news/2014/12/mo-trafeh-drug-cheat-liar/I think you are overestimating how much money and infrastructure EPO takes. Even a poor Kenyan could win some prize money in the US or Europe and afford EPO. Or an unscrupulous coach or agent could supply it expecting to make it back from the athlete's winnings. It's not that hard.
The US. Not even close.
Dope Police wrote:
rekrunner wrote:How does that make sense? East African runners had better doctors than the rest of the world?
Where do you think it is easier to get EPO without a prescription - Kenya or the U.S.?
Look a little harder at the numbers. "Stacks and stacks" is too vague.
trollism wrote:
rekrunner wrote:How about finding some infrastructure behind? Who is supplying these Africans with dope?
We know Lance could afford his own program. How do all these Africans afford it?
You can wonder all you want, but your theory is less credible than what its trying to replace. Think about it and then dig up some data to support your wonders.
Stacks and stacks of East Africans on the filth list.
They're 'affording' it somehow.
rekrunner wrote:
We know Lance could afford his own program. How do all these Africans afford it?
According to the Trafeh report, he was able to get EPO for $680. That is not out of reach for a professional runner doing international races. Very obviously Jeptoo was able to access and afford EPO.
rekrunner wrote:
Look a little harder at the numbers. "Stacks and stacks" is too vague.
trollism wrote:Stacks and stacks of East Africans on the filth list.
They're 'affording' it somehow.
Ok, second only to Russia.
Given the filth list is only the tip of the iceberg, I would say a lot more than 25 Kenyans during that time period were eeping it up.
I take it you're up in arms about the idea that Russia might have a doping problem too, or are you only an apologist for certain countries?
Fritz the janitor wrote:
rekrunner wrote:How about finding some infrastructure behind? Who is supplying these Africans with dope?
We know Lance could afford his own program. How do all these Africans afford it?
Mo Trafeh bought EPO in Morocco for $650 and learned how to dose himself from his own research.
http://www.usada.org/wp-content/uploads/AAA-decision-Trafeh-December-2014.pdfTrafeh never tested positive and passed at least 21 drug tests.
http://www.letsrun.com/news/2014/12/mo-trafeh-drug-cheat-liar/I think you are overestimating how much money and infrastructure EPO takes. Even a poor Kenyan could win some prize money in the US or Europe and afford EPO. Or an unscrupulous coach or agent could supply it expecting to make it back from the athlete's winnings. It's not that hard.
It's fairly difficult to find a corrupt Italian...
It is looking like running is just as bad as the TDF.
Only five posts on this? After all these reports and after reading Tyler Hamilton's book, on cycling but still the same story here, I no longer care about following professional running. Maybe most LRC runners don't either.
My latest workout was 18x400m @ 76 seconds. What can I run my next 5k in? That's what everyone cares about! Their local results and own goals achieved cleanly through hard work!
This ties perfectly with the quote of the day. 1:59 marathon won't happen! We already had the 2.7% improvement in a short time and it was probably because of the second reason listed in the quote of the day. Right?