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Xfit_guy_the_real_1 wrote:

Wheat wrote:

Are potatoes really good for you? Or just a solid substitute for wheat? What are other good substitutions?

First of all, get your macros in check. More likely than not, you're overconsuming carbs.

Replace grains with meat and veggies. Then look at fruits. Then potatoes. At last, you can add some white rice - yes, technically grains but not with the same side effects as wheat.

I do probably eat way too many carbs especially in grain and wheat form. Thanks for the info =)

John Clendon wrote:

This is exactly where I am at. It is in the family, I was tested and had nothing. BUT I still have GI/energy issues. I have been a week without gluten so far. This has lead to some serious withdrawal. Huge headaches, moody, low energy, as I learn to use energy and calories without gluten. It sucks for running right now but hopefully it will smooth out soon.

Can report back in a few days to see how it progresses.

I'm interested on how you feel in a week or so. When I first went GF it was like I was a born again christian and I preached to anyone within earshot. Now I'm more of a live and let live guy but if you ever ask my opinion I may not stop telling you how great going GF (or wheat free). Once I broke the sugar/processed cravings (I didn't eat a lot to begin with) I no longer had any hunger panes. In fact there were times I would get headaches and it's because I realized I hadn't eaten in 6-8 hours and needed to eat. Processed foods are designed to make you addicted to the chemicals it's made up of.

A lot of the benefit of going gluten-free can be attributed to avoiding bad food irrespective of its gluten content. Gluten-free means no doughnuts, no pastry, no white bread (which usually means some crap filling), no sugary cereals, etc. When I gave up gluten it meant there was nothing at a Dunkin Donuts I could eat. I felt better. Duh - don't eat at Dunkin Donuts and you'll feel better. I still feel better even though I'm back to eating gluten, I just don't eat the crap.

blue plate special wrote:

A lot of the benefit of going gluten-free can be attributed to avoiding bad food irrespective of its gluten content.

I think there is a lot of truth in that. I think it's the same reason you get so many people going on gluten-free, Atkins, Paleo (even strawman Paleo), vegetarian, and reporting feeling so much better: they end up cutting out the processed crap (not everyone does so of course).

It's one of the many reasons I despise calorie-based interventions. If you tell people they can eat anything they want as long as they don't eat too many calories they end up eating garbage since it is gratifying and has the calories printed on the box.

For those posting about a negative Celiac diagnosis it is worth noting that there are dozens of known autoimmune responses to gluten but your MD probably only knows about Celiac since it has been known about for 50 years. If you have the money to spend and a willing doctor then the Cyrex array 3 is the one you want to ask for. If you don't have the money a very simple gluten challenge will at least let you know if it causes acute symptoms for you.

Xfit_guy_the_real_1 wrote:

THIS.

There are no health benefits in grains, no matter if whole or not.

Plain sugar basically gives you the same insulin response but none of the other side effects.

Are you serious? What a load of carbage.

Whole grains have benefits. Study more.

Xfit_guy_the_real_1 wrote:

Wheat wrote:

Are potatoes really good for you? Or just a solid substitute for wheat? What are other good substitutions?

First of all, get your macros in check. More likely than not, you're overconsuming carbs.

Replace grains with meat and veggies. Then look at fruits. Then potatoes. At last, you can add some white rice - yes, technically grains but not with the same side effects as wheat.

Replace grains with meat? LOL

Yes, if you want atherosclerosis and colon cancer.

Gluten is a problem for maybe 5% of people.

UK Limey runner wrote:

There isn't much in wheat apart from a bunch of glucose and a pitiful amount of protein that you may or may not be able to use. Oh, and also perhaps some micronutrients that were added in by law since food scientists knew decades ago the potential negative impact on public health boosting cereal intake would have, hence the introduction of fortification (fortification is not mandatory in the UK like it is in the US, but everyone does it anyway).

Typical utter nonsense from UK Slimey. (yes, I'm done playing nice with you. )

A couple servings of whole wheat foods (say, a large serving of whole wheat pasta with olive oil and tomato sauce, and a whole wheat bagel) in a day would prove you with the following:

1) 20-25 g's protein

(That's not "pitiful", that's something. And nonsense on "you may or may not be able to use it" (??). Studies have shown that a high amount of grain protein can stimulate muscle synthesis as well as a slightly lower amount of say milk protein. If you eat a balanced diet, and get the other AA's that wheat is a *bit* lower in, then those 20 g's damn sure count towards your total protein for the day, your muscle synthesis, and your recovery. Sure, of course there are better sources of protein, and one should consume those ALSO, but wheat DOES have a moderate amount of protein that CAN help with your daily total.

2) ~ 15 g's of dietary fiber.

High intakes of cereal fiber have been linked REPEATEDLY to lower mortality and better health, and LOWER levels of inflammation

3) ~ 15-50% of your daily needs in the following vitamins/minerals:

Thiamin

Riboflavin

Niacin

Vitamin B6

Folate

Pantothenic Acid

Iron

Magnesium

Phosphorus

Potassium

Zinc

Copper

*(all occurring naturally, NONE are part of the fortification process. That's for REFINED grains, not whole)

4) well over 100% of you daily needs of SELENIUM and MANGANESE

5) a decent source of choline (required for synthesis of the phospholipids in cell membranes, methyl group metabolism and cholinergic neuro- transmission, ) and GOOD source of betaine*

*a quick primer on betaine - (is also now being used, in isolation, as a successful sports supplement)-

"Betaine has also been studied in clinical trials in the treatment of alcohol- related diseases. The primary stage of alcoholic liver damage is the accumulation of fat in the liver. Betaine, because of its lipotropic effects, has been shown to produce significant improvements in this condition by assisting the liver in processing fats (lipids). Betaine has also been found to protect the liver against hepatotoxins such as ethanol and carbon tetrachloride. Thus, betaine has both lipotropic and hepatoprotective activity in humans (Vos et al, 1009).

•Of the two hundred and forty one foods analyzed betaine concentration was the highest in wheat and wheat products.

•Betaine, a choline derivative also known as trimethylglycine, is produced in the human body from choline and the amino acid glycine. As with folic acid, vitamin B6 and vitamin B12 , betaine may function as a methyl donor and aid in proper liver function, cellular replication, and detoxification reactions. Betaine, along with other nutrients, plays a role in reducing elevated blood levels of homocysteine by facilitating its conversion to methionine. Elevated homocysteine levels can lead to artherosclerosis, stroke, peripheral vascular disease, osteoporosis and optic lens dislocation (Brower et al, 2000). Methylenetetrahydrofolate reductase deficiency, a common inborn error of folate metabolism, occurs in children when homocystinuria is combined with hypomethioninemia resulting in severe developmental delay, seizures, apnea, microcephaly, peripheral neuropathy and coma. Betaine treatment has been shown to be efficient in lowering homocysteine concentrations and in returning methionine to normal levels (Fattal – Valevski et al, 2000) (Fig 1).

6) There are many other phytochemicals in whole grains such as wheat that are not as well known as essential nutrients, but that have pronounced, positive effect on one's health. I will list them next ...

Whole wheat is delicious and healthy if you are not in that small group of people.

Here's a whole lot more of the big fat NOTHING that UK Slimey and Cult_Fit_Princess say are in whole grains-

"Whole grains also contain fiber, RS, oligosaccharides, and lignans, which have important biological activities and functions (3,23).

For example, the dietary fiber, RS, and oligosaccharides in whole grains may contribute to cholesterol reduction, healthy blood glucose and insulin concentrations, improved digestive health, and lower risk of certain gastrointestinal cancers (23). Lignans found in whole grains have strong antioxidant and phytoestrogenic effects. Intestinal microflora play a role in converting these plant lignans into the mammalian lignans, enterolactone and enterodiol, which may provide protection against chronic diseases such as hormone-related cancers, diabetes, and heart disease.

Plant sterols and stanols are also found in whole grains, the type and amount varying by the type of whole grain and the whole grain component. They are known to inhibit cholesterol absorption and increase its excretion, thereby playing a role in regulating blood cholesterol levels. Increased whole grain consumption may be associated with increased phytosterol intake, thus potentially contributing to cholesterol reduction and cardioprotection . Lectins, phenolic acids, amylase inhibitors, and saponins have also been shown to lower plasma glucose, insulin, and/or plasma cholesterol and TG levels.

Plant phenolic acids provide chemical defense to the plant against pathogens, parasites, and predators (15). There are various classes of phenolic compounds in whole grains, includ- ing derivatives of benzoic and cinnamic acids, namely ferulic acid, vanillic acid, caffeic acid, syringic acid, p-coumaric acid, anthocyanidins, quinines, flavonols, chalones, flavones, flava- nones, and amino phenolic compounds.

The whole grain phenolic compounds in the body function as antioxidants by donating hydrogen atoms to free radicals (3,17). The total phenolic acid concentration of whole grains corresponds to their total antioxidant capacities.

Corn has the highest phenolic acid content, followed by wheat, oats, and rice, with 265, 136, 111, and 95 mg gallic acid equivalents/100 g, respectively (17). Miller et al. (22) reported the antioxidant capacity of whole grain breakfast cereals to range from 2200 to 3500 Trolox equivalents (TE). In comparison, antioxidant capacity of fruits generally ranged from 600 to 1700 TE, with a high of 2200 TE for red plums and 3600 TE for berries, and vegetables averaged 450 TE, with a high of 1400 TE for red cabbage. A 41-g average serving of ready-to-eat whole grain breakfast cereal had an antioxidant capacity of 1120 TE compared with 380 and 1020 TE in an average 85-g serving of vegetables and fruits, respectivel

rrr wrote:

Whole wheat is delicious and healthy if you are not in that small group of people.

You are correct. And I just proved it.

BS!

I did the gluten thing for 5 weeks. No increase in my build. No loss of weight. I didn't feel more alive!

TL;DR for all of T-Rex.

blue plate special wrote:

A lot of the benefit of going gluten-free can be attributed to avoiding bad food irrespective of its gluten content. Gluten-free means no doughnuts, no pastry, no white bread (which usually means some crap filling), no sugary cereals, etc. When I gave up gluten it meant there was nothing at a Dunkin Donuts I could eat. I felt better. Duh - don't eat at Dunkin Donuts and you'll feel better. I still feel better even though I'm back to eating gluten, I just don't eat the crap.

I really don't eat heavily processed or sugary foods to begin with. So I am approaching this from what I consider to be a pretty clean diet.

Attempting to combat the withdrawal mood swings and energy with more fat. Almonds and home made peanut butter, bacon included in some more meals. I am hoping it smooths out any kind of insulin spike/crash.

rrr wrote:

Replace grains with meat? LOL

Yes, if you want atherosclerosis and colon cancer.

Meat doesn't cause either of those things. Western industrial methods of processing and preparing them might contribute.

And grain/fiber does NOT prevent colon cancer. The American Gastroentological Association stated several years ago that evidence for the mythical anti-cancer benefit of fiber was ambiguous at best. It was founded on the wild hypothesis that people had to strain more to take a shit if there wasn't as much of it, and that somehow gave them cancer. Decades of investigation failed to substantiate it, but did suggest that high-fiber diets cause inflammatory bowel disease.

It is interesting in nutritional debates which side gets bent out of shape and emotional. Always the vegetable side. Passionate about their beliefs to the point of fanaticism, and deeply offended by anything contradictory.

Bad Wigins wrote:

It is interesting in nutritional debates which side gets bent out of shape and emotional. Always the vegetable side. Passionate about their beliefs to the point of fanaticism, and deeply offended by anything contradictory.

Interestingly, even dietitians now admit that one of the most healthy foods are leafy vegetables. The ones that contain the least fiber (compared to e.g. cauliflower).

Yes, more than a paragraph or two is waaaaay too much for those with short attention spans/ADHD, and who live their lives based on headlines, sound-bytes, catch phrases, and fad concepts. If what I wrote was "too long" for you to read, then apparently you have never read a nutrition research paper or book chapter in your entire life. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and say that that is not true. Therefore, the only conclusion one can make is that the reason you didn't read my post was not because it was "too long", but because it would contradict your preconceived beliefs. Take your pick: Lazy and uneducated, or dishonest with a closed mind...?

(and as far as the ADHD goes, I don't think a change in diet will help)

Right on cue. "clean diet" is a completely meaningless phrase made up by fad nutrition followers. Good luck with that!

Bad Wigins wrote:

It is interesting in nutritional debates which side gets bent out of shape and emotional. Always the vegetable side. Passionate about their beliefs to the point of fanaticism, and deeply offended by anything contradictory.

Oh spare me.

A) I am not "bent out of shape." I have fun giving grief to morons. You do it all the time and you know it. And I can point to 100's of posts by "bent out of shape" "emotional" posters debating me from the other side. Steeeerike 1 !

b)I am not on "the vegetable side". Complete BS.As usual, complete buffoons like yourself misrepresent my position. I eat meat nearly every day. I criticize/correct wrong statements by vegans all the time. I only defend against the notion that "wheat is evil," that "high carb diets are always bad/inferior to high fat diets" and that there is "absolutely no evidence that a high sat fat/high red meat diet could have any negative effects" (well, and of course I correct 9 out of 10 things that come out of your or Cult_Fit's mouth). That's it. I know, this doesn't fit your simplistic black/white nonsense, but it's my position if you paid attention. I am on the side of ACTUAL research, not the $hit you dream up in your head.

Steeeeerike 2

Step up Bad Wig, what else you got? there is fastball coming down the pike to put you away if you want it?

Xfit_guy_the_real_1 wrote:

Interestingly, even dietitians now admit that one of the most healthy foods are leafy vegetables.

"Even now" ?? What planet do you live on? They have ALWAYS promoted leafy green veggies.

Bad Wigins wrote:

Meat doesn't cause either of those things. W them might contribute.

And grain/fiber does NOT prevent colon cancer. The American Gastroentological Association stated several years ago that evidence for the mythical anti-cancer benefit of fiber was ambiguous at best. It was founded on the wild hypothesis that people had to strain more to take a shit if there wasn't as much of it, and that somehow gave them cancer. Decades of investigation failed to substantiate it, but did suggest that high-fiber diets cause inflammatory bowel disease.

.

I love how you state UNEQUIVOCALLY state that grain DOES NOT prevent colon cancer and high red meat/sat fat intake DOES NOT CAUSE CVD. It must be great have settled all these issues!! In both cases, there is plenty of evidence to contradict what you are stating.

As far as fiber, chew on this:

---------------------

Dietary Fiber Intake and Mortality

in the NIH-AARP Diet and Health Study

Yikyung Park, ScD; Amy F. Subar, PhD; Albert Hollenbeck, PhD; Arthur Schatzkin, MD†

Background: Dietary fiber has been hypothesized to lower the risk of coronary heart disease, diabetes, and some cancers. However, little is known of the effect of dietary fiber intake on total death and cause-specific deaths.

Methods: We examined dietary fiber intake in relation to total mortality and death from specific causes in the NIH (National Institutes of Health)-AARP Diet and Health Study, a prospective cohort study. Diet was assessed using a food-frequency questionnaire at baseline. Cause of death was identified using the National Death Index Plus. Cox proportional hazard models were used to estimate rela- tive risks and 2-sided 95% confidence intervals (CIs).

Results: During an average of 9 years of follow-up, we identified 20 126 deaths in men and 11 330 deaths in women. Dietary fiber intake was associated with a sig- nificantly lowered risk of total death in both men and women (multivariate relative risk comparing the high-

est with the lowest quintile, 0.78 [95% CI, 0.73-0.82; P for trend, 􏰊.001] in men and 0.78 [95% CI, 0.73-0.85; P for trend, 􏰊.001] in women). Dietary fiber intake also lowered the risk of death from cardiovascular, infec- tious, and respiratory diseases by 24% to 56% in men and by 34% to 59% in women. Inverse association between dietary fiber intake and cancer death was observed in men but not in women. Dietary fiber from grains, but not from other sources, was significantly inversely related to total and cause-specific death in both men and women.

Conclusions: Dietary fiber may reduce the risk of death from cardiovascular, infectious, and respiratory dis- eases. Making fiber-rich food choices more often may pro- vide significant health benefits.

Arch Intern Med.

Published online February 14, 2011. doi:10.1001/archinternmed.2011.18

Wow so true. I never even thought about it til you guys mentioned it. The whole diets may help a bit, but basically cut out the processed shit and your body responds so Mich better. Then just tailor your diet to what you need! Brilliant!