holy cow - when did US debt exceed US GDP?

jjjjjjjjj wrote:

Don't ever compare us to Greece. The dollar is the reserve currency of the world. We are the largest economy. Our budget deficit is entirely sustainable at among the smallest percentages of GDP in a long time. If we are in trouble, then why isn't there either a high interest rate or a high inflation rate? The economy's doing quite well in fact. It was Bush (and his recession) who put the deficit to the highest figure in the last year of his presidency.

Hahahahahaha. Ignorant child.

The GDP was never meant to be used as a measure of how much debt a government can "afford" take on. Totally apart from the problems with how it is measured and the fact it is a dubious and largely meaningless and misleading measure of the size of an economy in the first place, the GDP is not a government bank account that it can just draw upon when it needs to repay debt. It represents privately owned wealth that people are by nature resistant to parting with, and the degree to which the government would have to raise taxes to pay off what we owe without hyperinflating the currency is not realistic. Whether you think people should be willing to accept higher taxes is irrelevant. Those of you who justify our current very dangerous level of debt by invoking the debt/GDP ratio are going to be in for some very painful, and in some cases, very richly deserved surprises when reality comes crashing in and this country is forced to face up to some extremely simple facts of such as that we can't get out of debt by taking on more debt and that the rest of the world will not be willing to hold our debt and our currency indefinitely regardless of our financial behavior. This country has thrown the rules of rational thought out the window and there is a very steep price to pay for that.

Roy D. Mercer wrote:

jungleroy59 wrote:

3 things

1. why on a running message board?

2. vast majority of debt rung up under Reagan, Bush, not Clinton, Obama

3. So if my home mortgage is 100K but my annual salary is 90K, that's a disaster? why?

ah, more proof that we're utterly screwed. Can't have a population as confidently ignorant as this idiot and expect it to end well...

You mean the OP or any of theses right wing armchair economists. The collective ignorance is astounding.

You realize in 1946 is was at 121. But I guess you were too busy listening to Rush to look anything up.

Pointing Out the Obvious wrote:

jjjjjjjjj wrote:

... It was Bush (and his recession) who put the deficit to the highest figure in the last year of his presidency.

It was Bush' recession? Seriously? Why do such little minds think that the POTUS is essentially all powerful?

Dude high five! But everything is still Obama's fault, right? Just tell me who to hate and I'm on board.

$17 trillion total includes debt owed by the government to itself (e.g. Treasuries owned by the Federal Reserve, etc.). Excluding the intra-governmental debt puts the Federal debt to GDP ratio in the range 70-75% that it was at when you fell asleep.

jungleroy59 wrote:

2. vast majority of debt rung up under Reagan, Bush, not Clinton, Obama

You're dumber than your name sounds. The debt has more than tripled under the current president, Obama.

As of August 2014:

The previous 43 U.S. presidents COMBINED, 1789 through 2008: $6. trillion.

President Obama alone, 2009 through 2014: $$7.06 trillion.

Even in May 2012, the non-partisan PolitiFact.com, noted that Obama had added more to national debt than all previous 43 presidents combined!

you're an f-tard wrote:

jungleroy59 wrote:

2. vast majority of debt rung up under Reagan, Bush, not Clinton, Obama

You're dumber than your name sounds. The debt has more than tripled under the current president, Obama.

As of August 2014:

The previous 43 U.S. presidents COMBINED, 1789 through 2008: $6. trillion.

President Obama alone, 2009 through 2014: $$7.06 trillion.

Even in May 2012, the non-partisan PolitiFact.com, noted that Obama had added more to national debt than all previous 43 presidents combined!

http://www.politifact.com/new-jersey/statements/2012/may/04/chain-email/obama-has-added-more-national-debt-previous-43-pre/

Oh yeah? What policies has he instituted that has resulted in him adding 7 trillion to the debt?

Our total assets are $112 TRILLION... what are you concerned about?

jjjjjjjjj wrote:

If we are in trouble, then why isn't there either a high interest rate or a high inflation rate?

Could 5 of the US richest people put a dent in the ND? Hypothetically

Sell Facebook, Microsoft, etc..to foreign holders, pay proceeds into the debt, then buy back after prices drop and paid significant chunk of principle, so interest would be manageable

Gggffff wrote:

Isn't US debt still considered grade A debt to countries that are buying it? So what difference does it make how much US issues as long as it's considered good?

precisely.

the greatest trader who ever lived was the greek finance minister who sold the world ~5% bonds at par and then the value went to nada. as long as people are queuing up to buy our debt, then what's the problem as long as we can service the interest and re-issue as older debt matures?

you're an f-tard wrote:

The debt has more than tripled under the current president...

As of August 2014:

The previous 43 U.S. presidents COMBINED, 1789 through 2008: $6. trillion.

President Obama alone, 2009 through 2014: $$7.06 trillion.

Even in May 2012, the non-partisan PolitiFact.com, noted that Obama had added more to national debt than all previous 43 presidents combined!

http://www.politifact.com/new-jersey/statements/2012/may/04/chain-email/obama-has-added-more-national-debt-previous-43-pre/

Not only is your math far from correct (US GDP is much greater than $13T), but you don't even have a proper understanding of the article you've linked to. Differentiate between public and total debt and the other misrepresentations you left in there and get back to us.

Not directly related, but - any discussion seriously comparing the US and Greek economies is so far afield it brings immediate discredit to the person making the argument. For starters, one has a tax base and controls its own currency and the other has neither.

Simple Truth wrote:

Pointing Out the Obvious wrote:

It was Bush' recession? Seriously? Why do such little minds think that the POTUS is essentially all powerful?

Dude high five! But everything is still Obama's fault, right? Just tell me who to hate and I'm on board.

DAMN YOU OBAMA!!!

Easily wrote:

krispy kremlin wrote:

I must have fallen asleep at the switch, I thought this ratio was hovering around 70-75%... but it is now over 100% - this is danger zone.

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

Even before now, I've brought this concept up to my friends but they are too busy playing video games, babbling on about social justice, or bitching about why they're social workers.

We.now.owe.more.than.we.produce.

#whoisgoingtopaythisbackquestionmark

InflationOrTaxes.html

Read this please:

http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-things-everyone-gets-wrong-about-government-spending/

Great read.

PLEASE tell me you're a TROLL.

Please?

You're just NOW realizing this????

Sell some of our spare nukes for a few Trillion.

I remember when Ross Perot was complaining in '92 that the debt was $4T or so.

That seems like a bargain.

POINT: if the government goes bankrupt who's going to pay out the disability, SocSec and welfare checks?

"May you live in interesting times"

economic collapse is eminent

The debt alarmists have always been wrong because their "fear" is based on false assumptions.

Investors continue to buy our government securities at record low interest rates. It's investors that matter in the determination of a debt "crisis." When they stop buying our securities, then we might have a problem. However, this will NEVER happen. The investment community at large - yes, including foreigners - have a HUGE stake in a strong U.S. and they will always look to our securities as part of a mutually beneficial relationship. We can't sell our debt fast enough as super low rates.

A government debt NEVER has to be paid back. Yes, that's right, NEVER. The reason being is that a government has the ability to generate income (the existence of a good tax base) forever. The amount of debt and how long it is held DOES NOT MATTER unless:

We are unable to make our interest payments. And that has NEVER been a problem for the U.S. government. In fact, our debt service payments as a percentage of our total budget are actually quite low right now in historical terms - largely thanks to our ability to borrow at such low rates.

The sky is not falling, friends. Those proclaiming that the end is near don't understand how the debt works or the tools available to the federal government to manage it.

To be honest, it is no coincidence the debt alarmists are usually the same ones who simply want to reign in government spending in areas that benefit middle and low income people. I wish they would just come out and say they hate lower income people and the reasons why instead of trying to fan the flames of a fire that just doesn't exist. Typical deceptive rich people, I guess.