Having a running coach does virtually nothing in terms of improving performance.

wtf?? I have coached many runners to success and glory. Without me their potential would have remained untapped!!!

Spend money on a coach?

Coaches spend money to coach me!

Coaching is a huge scam. Most coaches, including elite ones, add no value to their athlete's careers.

i eat donuts wrote:

Coaching is a huge scam. Most coaches, including elite ones, add no value to their athlete's careers.

hmmm - not sure Bernard Lagat, Meb K, Mo Farah or Galen Rupp would agree with you. Also interesting to compare the results for Jenny BS when coached by Wetmore vs when not coached by Wetmore.

you have not been lucky enough to have been coached by me. I will make you great, just pay me and see the results. I will coach you even if you are on a team already with a coach, nobody will know it, but I will make you better.

I am the answer. I can do what no one else can do, I am the best coach there is, just pay me and you will see.

dkny64 wrote:

hmmm - not sure Bernard Lagat, Meb K, Mo Farah or Galen Rupp would agree with you. Also interesting to compare the results for Jenny BS when coached by Wetmore vs when not coached by Wetmore.

I couldn't care less about the opinions of elite athletes—they are physically gifted ignoramuses.

I had a coach but when I moved I stopped working with him.

I have since realised that if you have the ability to read & understand a few books on running and nutrition, have some fast running buddies to train with a couple of times a week, and are sufficently self-motivated then a coach brings very little to the party.

On the other hand, if you are an emotiional basket case who constantly needs re-assurance then you probably should have a coach. Or maybe you could just get a dog?

i eat donuts wrote:

dkny64 wrote:

hmmm - not sure Bernard Lagat, Meb K, Mo Farah or Galen Rupp would agree with you. Also interesting to compare the results for Jenny BS when coached by Wetmore vs when not coached by Wetmore.

I couldn't care less about the opinions of elite athletes—they are physically gifted ignoramuses.

Perhaps, but to the extent that claim is true, all the more reason why such elites can benefit from coaching from people who know more than they do.

I serve as my own coach, and I'm damn awful at it.

cubcake wrote:

I serve as my own coach, and I'm damn awful at it.

If you pay someone does that automatically make them good at it?

Ego Tistical wrote:

cubcake wrote:

I serve as my own coach, and I'm damn awful at it.

If you pay someone does that automatically make them good at it?

Nope. It would automatically make me a spendthrift, fool.

dkny64 wrote:

Also interesting to compare the results for Jenny BS when coached by Wetmore vs when not coached by Wetmore.

Good point..

Under Wetmore, Simpson finished 163rd at the 2009 NCAA xc championships as a HEAVY favorite and 3:59 runner.

Under Juli Benson, Simpson was a surprise world champion in 2011.

;) Rojo

PS. I'm a big Wetmore fan. I couldn't believe Simpson left him but you can't argue with Gold. Benson deserves props for that. This post is made somewhat in jest buy it amazes me how the negatives of Wetmore and Simpson are just completely ignored.

Self coach wrote:

I have since realised that if you have the ability to read & understand a few books on running and nutrition, have some fast running buddies to train with a couple of times a week, and are sufficently self-motivated then a coach brings very little to the party.

As a coach, I always say it's a great profession to be in as people only have one running career. Most people are improving a ton as they are growing/maturing or training more as they gt more and more into it. THe coach often gets the credit though as the athletes dont' realize that.

The coach also gets blame when they start to level off as they get to full maturity and PRs become harder to come by.

JK and I used to think a great coach can maybe make 1 second a lap difference. Maybe he can take a 4:10 talent and have him beat a 4:06 but coaching isn't having him beat a 4:02 star.

that's not to say coaching is irrelevant at all.

It's very easy to screw up a season by burning it too hot.

Take a look at any NcAA conferences indoor results and compare them to the outdoor. Very rarely are they the same.

Do people not think Alan Webb had the talent ot medal if he was on his best at the Olympics?

Coaching isn't irrlevant but a coach like a horse trainer can't make the athlete.

rojo wrote:

dkny64 wrote:

Also interesting to compare the results for Jenny BS when coached by Wetmore vs when not coached by Wetmore.

Good point..

Under Wetmore, Simpson finished 163rd at the 2009 NCAA xc championships as a HEAVY favorite and 3:59 runner.

Under Juli Benson, Simpson was a surprise world champion in 2011.

http://www.letsrun.com/2009/homepage1124.phphttp://www.letsrun.com/2009/barringer1124.php

;) Rojo

PS. I'm a big Wetmore fan. I couldn't believe Simpson left him but you can't argue with Gold. Benson deserves props for that. This post is made somewhat in jest buy it amazes me how the negatives of Wetmore and Simpson are just completely ignored.

Had forgotten about that disaster at NCAA XC in 2009. Still, when you look at the T&FN all-time women's collegiate list [indoor/outdoor combined], her domination is kind of ridiculous:

1500m: #1 at 3:59.90 [2nd is over 4:06]

mile: #1 at 4:25.91 [2nd is 4:27.19 from the same race]

steeple: #1 at 9:25.54 [also 2nd; 3rd is over 9:28]

3000m: #1 at 8:42.03 [2nd is over 8:47]

5000m: #1 at 15:01.70 [also 2nd; 3rd is over 15:09]

dkny64 wrote:

Perhaps, but to the extent that claim is true, all the more reason why such elites can benefit from coaching from people who know more than they do.

The coaches know less than the athletes, who at least understand that they are ignorant, whereas the coaches falsely believe themselves experts.

I've personally found coaches hold me back from running the way God intended me to. They also take the money I could be spending on orphanages in Ethiopia, and sunglasses.

Rojo's comment, accurate though they are, are examples of how a coach can be disadvantageous. We all think Webb had the physical ability to medal, Jenny B could have won even more than she did, that we see plenty of early-season (and early career) burnout from heavy racing, etc and these are examples of coaches having a derogatory effect - meaning an athlete performs less well than was actually physically possible.

Is Benson doing something better than Wetmore? That's not really the question, is it? The question is, who is doing things WORSE. Things that negatively affect the athlete and remove the possibility of performing at their actual potential. Incidentally, JBS was pretty hot at times in NCAA and looks to be huge this year, so maybe it doesn't matter much.

IMHO a coach can never help ie raise your genetic ability but can indeed - and often does - impede one from attaining the performances those genetics allow. I know some of you talk smack about Ryan H because he's on the God squad but he is one who can prove me right - just give him another coachless year and I think he'll be back. Please Ryan, don't make me eat my words!

Both Wetmore and Benson are great coaches. I'm not sure why the varied results occurred in the case of Jenny. She is a very good runner. Wetmore gets criticized a lot because he is successful.

It all depends on the athlete and the coach, of course. A blanket statement of 1 second per lap is fair in certain regards, but when you look at the difference in quality of HS programs it's very clear that coaches can make much more of a difference than 1 second per lap!