Best Marathon Debut Ever By the Best Distance Runner Ever?

And you know this how?

Seriously, how can anyone think that Bekele or Gebrselassie doped for years? Think of the talent pool they come from. If America had such a talented pool of runners, maybe we could get a Bekele or a Geb, too, and not just another great African runner who becomes a U.S. citizen--not to take anything away from Meb's race at Boston.

Blowing Rock Master! wrote:

Jones's debut was in 1983 in Chicago. DNF

Truth be told yes he started , twisted his ankle early on dropped out and went to the race director and told him he could have his appearance money back.

Came back the next year and ran the entire marathon.

No wrote:It was a time trialed race. Him and Sileshi Swere running that race to qualify for their spot on the 10k team. Since Ethiopians only go by times instead of places for the qualification process. I think it's fair to say it was a time trialed race.

1 SIHINE, Sileshi ETH

WL 26:50.53

2 GEBRSELASSIE, Haile ETH

26:51.20

3 KIPCHOGE, Eliud KEN

26:54.32

4 KOMON, Leonard Patrick KEN

26:57.08

splits:

1000m 103 Janssen, Guus (NED) 2:38.79

2000m 104 Kosgei, Joseph (KEN) 5:22.03

3000m 104 Kosgei, Joseph (KEN) 8:03.17

4000m 88 Wondimu, Eshetu (ETH) 10:48.91

5000m 101 Kipchoge, Eliud (KEN) 13:31.65

6000m 96 Gebrmariam, Gebr (ETH) 16:13.83

7000m 100 Sihine, Sileshi (ETH) 18:56.53

8000m 100 Sihine, Sileshi (ETH) 21:37.43

9000m 102 Gebrselassie, Haile (ETH) 24:16.78

their is an immediate disparity for 5k splits for geb :

13'31.65+ / < 13'19.33

that in itself wouda got him well below 12'50 at even 5k splits

the splits for 26'51.20 are

2'41.12

the splits for race for leader at each km were

- 2'38.79 !

- 2'43.24

- 2'41.14

- 2'45.74 !

- 2'42.74

- 2'42.18

- 2'42.70

- 2'40.90

- 2'39.35 !

- 2'34.42 !!

so basically, they started off too quick in 1st km, slowed down until 8th km ( not one split fast as 26'51.20 pace from 1k - 8k ), then slowly ramped up the pace & blasted the last km & likely most of it done in last lap in typical ethiopian fashion ( with eliud 3rd & he doesn't lead much, especially in his ?debut 10k )

looking at those splits, anyone who doubts geb coudn't have gone ~ 26'40 at even pace that day needs to do some hard thinking...

jniji wrote:

No wrote:

It was a time trialed race. Him and Sileshi Swere running that race to qualify for their spot on the 10k team. Since Ethiopians only go by times instead of places for the qualification process. I think it's fair to say it was a time trialed race.

That's not fair to say at all. You can't just guess if it was time trialed or not to support your point. You actually need to find out how the race played out. Plenty of time trials don't go as planned. Nor is every time trial a max effort - see Cheserek's 10k at Stanford last week.

Again, in summary, it's not fair to say that at all. Stop guessing and find some real facts.

exactly

the splits indicate he was in more like 26'40 shape at even pace when he ran that 26'51

No wrote:This is not entirely true. When Geb ran 2:03:59 he ran 26:51 for the 10000m that year. He wasn't in 26:30 shape much less sub 26:30 shape

read more carefully

i said for "seriously < 2"04 "

geb didn't "seriously < 2"04 "

he did it by 1s

i'm talking guys who are running 2"03-low

the wr currently being 2"03'23

the guys who have moved on the M a lot from geb's day are the ones i'm interested in

this brief comment indicates geb ran that 10k off primary M training with no training runs shorter than 2k

hermens has interesting comment on the race :

“Conditions were not ideal and Haile could have run 10 or 15 seconds faster,”

which correlates well with prelim split analysis of ~ 26'40 at even pace & he states also conditions weren't great, meaning possibly cold &/or windy knocking some more handful of secs off 26'40

so, we have geb as fast as 26'36 off possibly mainly M training & he ran 2"03'59 in same year of similar presumed shape

just sayin wrote:i have major doubts about ventolins assertion that 2-04 guys are all in sub 26-30 shape

for a start, learn to read

i said "seriously < 2"04"

not a mere 1s under

hermens reckoned geb was in as quick as 26'36 shape in his 2"03'59

simple proportion woud give wilson in 2"03'23 shape

( & wilson's was far more uneven run with having to deal with eliud on his shoulder & backing off at 1/2 way - 30k+ to try & get eliud to do some work - he woudn't )

a prelim 10k on his wr day of

26'36 * ( 123'23/123'59 ) =

26'28+

& like i said he had more meat to shave off that bone than geb did in his wr

in fact i don't believe it

with no research & no evidence but nothing more than, well... nothing to back up your opinion

ventolin^3 wrote:

with no research & no evidence but nothing more than, well... nothing to back up your opinion

your calculations seem off re ; bekele

he is currently in sub 2-04 shape on the right course

however I seriously doubt he is back to 26-30 shape

I didn't need to pull a calculator out of my azz to work that one out

just sayin wrote:your calculations seem off re ; bekele

no

he is currently in sub 2-04 shape on the right course

nonsense

biwott was in shape of his life this year & improved his paris 2"05'12 clocking only marginally in london & weather was hotter when he ran paris than kennster

paris is a fast course but never had any big kenyans ever run it before

even stan was an unknown when he ran 2"05 on it

kennster wouda been no better than ~ 2"04'30 on a berlin type course

that indicates a current 10k based on geb's 26'36/2"03'59 of

~ 26'42+

i suggest you look up his best 10k of past few years...

however I seriously doubt he is back to 26-30 shape

he isn't

you've got the wrong M ability for him currently

kennster woud not be in better than 26'40-low shape currently

I didn't need to pull a calculator out of my azz to work that one out

no

stoopid thinking is your sole remit

i'd never dream of asking you to use a calculator

Emil Zatopek

Gold medal in his debut marathon, the 10,000 meters and 5,000 meters at the Summer Olympics in Helsinki 1952.

Bekele>Geb

just sayin wrote:

i have major doubts about ventolins assertion that 2-04 guys are all in sub 26-30 shape

in fact i don't believe it

Agreed. The notion that 2:04 => sub 26:30 is pure, unadulterated BS.