Playing soccer three times a week and running 2-3 miles and speed work on other days. I still need to do quite a bit of stretching, but things are definitely looking on the up and up.
Anyone ever had a "Sports Hernia" aka: "Sportsman's hernia", "Gilmore's groin", or "
Playing soccer three times a week and running 2-3 miles and speed work on other days. I still need to do quite a bit of stretching, but things are definitely looking on the up and up.
There's a difference between stating your opinion and misrepresenting fact. Reference your list of people recovering from sports hernia without surgery. The fact is many on that list were never diagnosed with a sports hernia. Besides, being diagnosed with a sports hernia and actually having a sports hernia are two different things - I'm testament to that. People need to be diagnosed by someone knowledgeable, not some general surgeon who can't figure out what else might be wrong so...sports hernia.
You implying Boyle is against getting a diagnosis from a doctor is not opinion - it is you twisting fact (that he didn't explicitly say to get a diagnosis in one particular article) into a convenient justification for you not to get a diagnosis and frankly bad advice for anyone new to these boards trying to get a handle on their problem.
Thansk to all of you who are helping me w/ my questions. I am doing all of the exercises Albert mentioned accept Superman and planks. At what week did you start doing those? I tried a side plank(as recommended by Boyle at week 2) and it did not feel right so I quit doing them. The only abs I have been doing are TA (transverse abdominus) contractions and pelvic curls (AKA bridges).
I have been emailing w/ the FMS guy. I was scheduled for this week but he suggested i postpone it till I am at week 4. I told him that I am already doing lunges and tons of other exercises and feel good - but he thinks I am doing way too much too soon.
I think the most frusterating thing about the rehab is that there are so many different schools of thought on how fast you should rehab. Meyers used to say do nothing but walk for 4 weeks - but has since discovered you can do much more safely. But the rehab Den shared from the pro hockey team is MUCH slower. Then there is Mike Boyle's version which is also very different. So all you can count on is your body - I am listening to my body and it is saying do more. But the FMS guy is concerned that until I figure out what went wrong in my body to cause this - that I need to slow donw so I don't do it again. Unofortunately I do not have the luxory of time b/c I start back at work at the end of August - ready or not.
Thansk so much for any advice you can give me on what exercises you would suggest for week 3 - other than what is on Meyers' protocol.
I have read every medical document I can find on Athletic Pubalgia and there is only one study that has ever shown rehab to be effective - it was a 5 year rehab program and only worked for 60% of the patients.
I saw that mentioned when I read Meyers' paper, but I never could find the article. I think it said 3-5 years. Do you have a link to it?
MY STORY - SURF
First, my story quickly. I’m 59 yrs-old and have been playing pickup basketball once or twice a week for many years. In a game one year ago (Summer of 2008), making a quick move from a stooped defensive position, I felt something “give” in my groin, but no pain. I continued to play the game, no problem. I continued to play once or twice per week no problems. Sometime that summer, I went to do some situps and noticed a mild pain about an inch or two below my navel with each rep. Very unusual for me. Also I noticed my situps were weaker. I immediately decided to avoid doing situps.
But I kept playing basketball all that summer and Fall once or twice per week, with zero problems. Feeling great.
I moved across town for a new job and found a great court there with plenty of games every day. Rather than once or twice per week I started playing 3, 4, 5 days per week, thru November, December, January. No problems whatsoever. Life is wonderful.
One day I tried a few situps at home and noticed that I still had that little pain below my navel, but it was better – as if it had been slowly healing on its own. So, like an idiot, I decided to do some knee-ups. Sitting in a chair I grasp the seat with my hands, suspending my butt off the seat, then bring my knees up to my chin. Did about 10 of those.
Couple days later I became much sorer than usual after a basketball game, sore in the spermatic cords. Then a day later was OK. I didn’t mentally connect the abdominals work with the soreness.
A few days later decided to try some pull-down tricep work. Did a couple sets of 10 but could feel that little pain below my navel, so stopped. The next day or so, I became very sore and knew something was wrong.
I got on the internet and found out about something called sports hernia. I decided to take a week or two off basketball. Played a light 2 on 2 basketball game, I think, that went fine, but still some soreness next day. Rode a reclining stationary bike (bad idea because it crunches the trunk) and became even sorer.
So I quit basketball altogether at the end of February 2009, roughly 5 months ago.
In March and April I made some efforts at rehab using the same protocol as Meyers and some other doctors, mainly standing hip adduction, standing hip flexion, etc. Had some very encouraging results after just a couple of days, but then crashed and burned with inflammation, especially sore testicles/spermatic cords.
My main early symptoms in chronological order of discovering them:
- pain and inch or two below navel with each situp
- sore lower abdomen getting out of bed
- sore spermatic cords when putting on pants in the morning.
- pain in left groin, especially when stepping off with left leg from standing position, or after arising from a chair, or after getting out of a chair.
- sore/tight adductor in inner thighs, especially left leg.
- sore [adductor] muscles at back of upper left leg, especially after stooping and picking things up off the floor.
When I overdo it, the pain in my spermatic cords/testicals becomes more constant and pronounced.
About May 1 (3 months ago) I moved from Oregon where I was working, back to my home in Florida. This entailed boxing up things, and a lot of bending, stooping and walking up and down apartment stairs. This caused an assortment of short-term pains in lower abdomen. Left, right, all over the place, very depressing.
One constant observation throughout this entire injury: During some parts of every day, I have felt fine. This is the most puzzling thing to me of all. I’m certain I have an injury, but it seems to simply disappear during part or parts of every day. Even on my worst days I almost always feel pain-free, perhaps for an hour, after my evening shower. Very puzzling.
That’s my story. Later today or tomorrow I’ll post my latest rehab results, which I began after moving to where I am now, in Florida.
I only started planks last week and they are from my knees. I feel alot of tension if I do them on my toes. I will get there though. I can not and will not do the side planks since my shoulders are toast....What isn't on me...LOL
I tend to agree that you should listen to your body. However, i think to much strain on the incision areas (RA specifically) is just too much tension on that area too soon.
Bridges are great as are pelvic tilts. I would wait until you get the FMS assessment to "turn up the heat". Keep doing what you are doing but do not venture just yet.
When you do the assessment you will turbocharge to fitness. Look what you have done so soon. If it were not for this damn torn MCL (which is killing me today) I would be way ahead....pisses me off. My point is with the focused excercises you will address your deficient movement patterns and i think in 3 weeks you will be raring to go. I think end of August is no problem.
I have made my biggest gains by FMS...not the rehab protocol. However, being fair I had an infection on the incision site with loads of fluid buildup and when Meyers re-cut that my leg pressure disappeared and I got better fast.
It is hard for me to say because I am
2) was injured longer
3) and in worse shape
**I am amazed at the strides I am making but I am in pain from my PF and MCL tears....By favoring those i think it is impeding even faster repair time for my AP.
So my point is that you are young...in shape to begin with and with FOCUSED rehab you will be killer.
I think each person is very different...Boyles says this...Meyers that....but until someone takes a look at your situation it is hard to plug in a generic one size fits all rehab.
Also Surf...JC predicted it...You never answer questions...EVER....I personally have no idea why you are posting your story for the umpteenth time.
Without a diagnosis it is irrelevant. I do not think anyone can take any of your rehab seriously...or why would they? If i were logging on would i try your hocus pocus bullshit for something you may or may not have? NO....Many here are scared of this and want to get better. Not collaberate on nonsense.
There are experts out there. I know I will encourage readers to listen to them.
Why don't you just go away...Seriously. All you do is stir up shit.
I actually hoped you would get a diagnosis, but who really cares. Why should someone care if someone does not want to help themselves. Obviously you do not. You keep posting the same shit. We keep posting advice. You do not take it. Then you bring up non-verified cases and the ride starts again.
We will all be gone and you can try to pollute some new peoples brains. I hope not, because you are dangerous to newbies with your MIS-INFORMATION.
How does one detect soreness in their spermatic cords? That's a very puzzling statement to me.
I think Hockey Player is waaaaay ahead of schedule and is running again.
Also Tiff despite having a monster RA tear is walking 5 miles a day fast.
JC had a 2 RA's, 2 adductors and a hernia and is walking steep hills 2x per day and is 10 days out.
also go to http://www.sports-hernia.net. This gentleman is pre-med and had a mesh re-do as well as bilateral addcutor release and bilataeral AP repair. His name is Dan and he was putting in serious mileage at 9 weeks. He also snowboarded 25 days in a row and is back playing soccer. He was kind enough to e-mail me before surgery.
All of these people were injured. Each of them got the facts and made educated decisions and are back on the path of health. Is it pleasant. NOPE.....This rehab was worse than my knee surgery. Worse than my ankle surgery. Worse than my hand surgery. But all those parts can be rested. This is the center of our bodies.
It is exciting to rehab as well, because muscles i had given up on were coming back to life after 5 years and others that were in distress were now relaxed.
My glutes immediately turned back on and alot of my rehab is centered around my minimus/medius as to not overload my adductors. Maximus is firing but the others still get tired.
All though this injury was hell (5 years...18 months in bed mostly) the rehab has taught me more about my body and self than anything else in my life. I was always in shape as a boxer and wrestler. However, i was imbalanced. I was freakishly strong in the chest and legs but even though i had a flatter stomach my core was weak...I mean real weak.
So now i am taking this OPPORTUNITY to balance my body and be healthy in the future. I do not fear this happening again because I was an accident waiting to happen. I fought way too long (to age 41). Not from trauma but because of the training was so severe and is designed for younger men.
However, I intend on playing softball again or just working out hard. These are thoughts i gave up on. So to me Meyers was a godsend sent to me by JC.
I'm only hitting the three-week mark tomorrow but I feel like I am doing very well and the physical therapist I saw last week echoed that sentiment.
Quick update on my progress:
I began jogging on the treadmill a few days ago. First very light and each day picked up both the pace and the distance, hitting one mile yesterday. It felt great. Continuing with the pool running, cariocas, side slides, jumping jacks, scissors as called for in Meyers protocol. Also the hip adduction/abduction/flexion/extension with weights -- using a standing rotary hip machine in my gym. My walking between my office and the train station has picked up significantly in pace over the past 4-5 days -- to the point where i no longer feel like i am holding back because of pain/stiffness and am walking just like i used to (fast and weaving in and out of the slower pedestrians). Doing lunges (3 sets of 10 on each side, with 5 lb dumbell in each hand). Combining all of this with lots of stretching and pelvic tilts. Nothing further like bridges/planks on the strengthening side yet. Tried swimming (freestyle stroke) but that was a bit too painful in the abs. Am going to try some light skating and perhaps the sprinting called for in the Meyers protocol in a few days. Also continuing the twice daily adductor massage.
My pain: at rest I am mostly pain-free. With activity I feel stiffness and some soreness but it is getting much better. Yesterday morning I woke up with a sore left hip. It is tender to the touch and also hurts with movement like walking. I think this was related primarily to sleeping the whole night on my right side. It hurt a bit during my workout yesterday afternoon, but I iced it when I got home and slept on my back last night and I feel much better today.
In general, I feel like my body is telling me to do more, not less, so I have been pushing a bit harder the past 2-3 days than I thought I'd be going at this point. I'm probably 4-5 days behind the Meyers protocol (technically this is day 20 and I am still not doing swimming and sprinting or ab crunches or 'considering game participation' as recommended) but I figured it would probably take me at least 6 weeks, not 3, before I felt like I could go back to doing everything I did before AP sidelined me. And, best of all, I have dropped almost 10 lbs as a result of 3 weeks of daily workouts after being largely inactive (as well as watching what I eat and drink while getting back into shape).
Anything can happen but right now I feel like surgery was definitely the right decision for me and I am confident that I will be able to resume all my activities in a relatively short time horizon.
I should add that I am doing all of the above every day. And forgot to mention that during the last few days I have incorporated light to moderate upper body weight lifting (seated tricep pushdowns, rear delt rows, standing bicep curls, seated pec flys) with no problem and it feels great!
For sports hernia, I'm not telling anybody, "Don't get a diagnosis from a doctor." Have you seen me recommend that to anybody?
But for me, after I've seen so many people in this thread, reading several years of posts, say they've been to many doctors and got many wrong diagnosis after wrong diagnosis, I'm wary of going through the same thing myself.
When Dr. Muschaweck makes another visit to the US I intend to get her diagnosis. But no, the formula/dogma being bandied about here, that one simply has to (a) go to a doctor, (b)get a diagnosis, (b)then try rehab a couple of weeks, it will fail, then (d) set the date for surgery... and all will be well.
To me that is simplistic, dangerous, but at least relieves one of the burden of thinking. Kind of like the yin/yang. That simplistic formula is the yang.
About Boyle and doctors.
Things to Avoid.
Avoid the surgeon. Surgeons do surgery. It is their business. Doctors work on what I call the 1-2-3 model or the three I's.
Inject- more anti-inflammatories
Incise- we all know what that means.
We want to avoid the 1-2-3 Model.
Your excellent progress is good news, and gives hope to all of us who want to get well. It looks like you're on a path towards our Hall of Success, next to Mike in Va and MelloDraMa.
Wishing you a speedy recovery.
Correction. I meant to say that simplistic formula is the yin. Sorry.
Surf-----Have you seen ANY Dr? Maybe you have a HERNIA of some kind??? Most of us have been to several Drs. What about you?
Other than a dermatologist examining me for skin cancers (I grew up in Florida), I haven't been to any doctor in about 20 years, in about 1986 when I broke my ankle playing basketball.
No medications either, except for a multi-vitamin occasionally, and now, because of Dr. Muschaweck's paper, I'm taking vitamin B6.
On the other hand, I worked as a pharmacist's assistant in high school and in college, also as a hospital orderly for one semester in college.
Dr. Muschaweck's less-invasive approach appeals to me, so if I'm not able to rehab out of this thing, I'll try to figure out how to afford her services, probably.
How are you doing Garrett?
I talked to a good friend today, he does a lot of biking, hiking, etc. He tore his achilles tendon over two years ago, and had surgery, then wore a solid cast for 6 weeks, then a soft cast (plastic boot) for 4 weeks.
Although in his life he's had a knee surgery and a shoulder surgery, the achilles tendon injury is by far the most debilitating health issue he has ever faced in his life.
He said even today, two years later, he still is fearful of it, and thinks about it first every time he wakes up in the morning.
Even sutured tendons take a long time to heal.
Wish I had some pretty stories with flowers and bluebirds for everybody. But better to be prepared for reality. Again, he had surgery.
Here's a story with a happier ending. I met a friend of one of my brothers last week who is 70 years old, in good shape, looks 60, retired Navy guy and construction worker.
Four years ago when we had a hurricane here in Florida he was carrying a sheet of plywood when he felt something give.
Inguinal hernia, he could see and feel the bulge in his groin area, to one side, could push it back in. Went to the VA hospital in West Palm Beach where a surgeon (a woman) fixed him with mesh. It cost him $109 out of pocket, VA paid the rest. He's had no problems since. It's been 4 years.
It's my understanding that an inguinal hernia showing as a visible bulge in the groin area, as opposed to descending down through the canal into the scrotum, is called a DIRECT inguinal hernia. But I could be wrong about that. I think, am guessing, that a hernia like his, a direct inguinal hernia, is the most common kind of hernia.
When I see him again I'll ask about what pains he had. I don't think they get all the testical pains, abductor pains as sports hernia.
You seem like a good guy. But I'm really trying to understand what you are trying to accomplish here. Most of us are posting ways to rehab, exercise videos, names of qualified physicians, body mechanics assessments etc. This is based off what we have learned from specialists whether it be physical therapists, trainers or physicians. We know the risks of surgery or a non-surgical approach, and that there is not really a quick fix for most of us. The alternative is to sit there and hope; didn't work for me. I don't know if I will be 100% again or not, but I'm better than I was before and I don't have pain.
I feel like you just want someone to tell you that it's ok not to seek a doctor or physical therapist because it takes tendons a long time to heal. I believe in alternative medicine and therapy as much as anyone. I even tried putting ginger compresses on my groin at one point! But there is a time where conventional medicine/technology sometimes prevails. At the very least, you should go to a doctor to find out if you have an inguinal hernia. If you do have an inguinal hernia, it is really more cut and dried than a sports hernia. I know lots of guys who had it, fixed it, and life is good in four weeks.
We don't want stories of pretty flowers and bluebirds. I'm sorry about your friend, but how does his fear help us get better? If you are alluding to the fact, that we should all take our time in the healing process, I agree totally and I think some of the doctors have really shortened their rehab protocols because of the pro athletes... these timelines are not really meant for us even if the exercises are. So I'm wary of the statements "you'll be able to jog in 4 days; back on the field in 2 weeks, etc." that some of the docs are promising.
If you have some alternative therapy to share with us that is proven to work in the healing process, I'd love to hear it. I'm into all kinds of natural healing ideas, diet, herbs, supplements, essential oils and myriad of other things.
I agree that one of the most useful things we can do in this forum is share our own experiences with rehab. That's really what it's all about, whether one has had surgery or wants to rehab without surgery.
Much ink has been spilled in this forum some folks trying to convince all comers to rush to surgery -- quickly, before you change your mind! -- if you know what I mean.
But no, I agree with you, REHAB is where it's at, for all of us. Tomorrow I'll hopefully get time to give a report on my status, and what has worked for me and what has not worked. You relating your progress has been useful to me and others probably, so thanks for those reports of yours earlier.
By the way, I wonder if SH in SC has any feedback for us. Hopefully he's on the tennis court.
Surf...... no one here is rushing anyone to surgery...What we are doing here is people who have had surgery are sharing there experience and asking questions to help them along to others who have had surgery......and others just coming on are finding out what Doctors to go to to get a diagnosis...and guys Like Albert and I who didnt have the luck to have this site 5 years ago to get the right Information on are trying to tell you you will do further damage the longer you go untreated if in fact you do have AP...we are TRUE FACTUAL EVIDENCE of that.....no guessing games....One side may end up turning into a Bilateral repair....a not needed adductor release may turn into a needed adductor release.....more scar tissue build up...muscles can calcify together, further body dysfunctions will follow etc etc etc etc....All True facts that have happend to us.....and we kind if went down different roads with Albert being jsut about bedridden and me being able to remain active playing ball....Rest....Active.....same result
Achilles tendon surgery is one of the hardest surgeries to recover from......espeically if the tendon detaches....I had very athletic and in shape friends who had this and there recovery took a very long time and was hell.....MUch harder and longer then AP surgery
Well My Insurance..Anthem BCBS...paid my July 15th surgery with Dr Meyer today July 28th 100%...Very Quick to my surprise....Total Bill from the Hospital was $11,598 for a Bilateral repair, Bilateral Adductor Release and Belly button hernia repair.....Plus I did stay over night in the hospital...Total billed was over $42,000
You should be in politics...
You never answer a question directly...
Twist data to suit your needs...
Give doomsday assessments that are not true to scare people..
Try to sound smart....
Paint people like they are pushing surgery....
Rate people you do not knows recovery...
Surf....bottom line....You are an asshole who has contribuited zero to this site. Other than your ying yang....theory of relativity bullshit....Who gives a flying shit about your friends achilles.....Now you are making an association that all surgery is bad...What does your friends surgery have to do with AP or SH. The therapists whose words you TWISTED has already been disproved by Tiff. All PT's I know and docs say this thing is a bitch. Many injuries respond to therapy. Take the knee...The MCL rarely requires surgery because of good blood supply, yet the ACL many times requires surgery.
You have yet to supply 1 ounce of data that has not been an OUTRIGHT twisting of facts.
Boyle data - TWISTED BY YOU
10 people who healed - TWISTED BY YOU
Well Intellect...I had my knee done....(100% for last 20 years and played 4 years of college football and USMC service...No problem)
I had my back done (continued to box at 100% for 15 years pain free)
I had my hand reset (100%)
I had my nose reset twice...(100%)
I had AP surgery 11 weeks ago (90%)
I had my thumb operated on (100%)
I had a shoulder operated on (100%)
You can wait until the stars align and have your tendons magically reconnect..
Oh I forgot...Docs know nothing and your stint as a Pharacist assistant makes you uniquesly qualified.
What is your purpose here? Nobody knows. You don't help people. You are a lunatic. You go round and round and never answer a question.
Face it....You are a clown.....Get it over with...GO buy some size 19 red shoes and a rubber nose...
You have zero credibility. I know I may not either but I have talked to the experts and followed their advice and what they said has come true. Has it been hard....YUP....HAs it been easy NOPE...
Also Hockey Player...GREAT WORK....I also had early on opposite side hip pain which subsided. JC made a great point that our opposing side is overtaxed in trying to keep the compartment stable and when it is finally relieved the muscles and soft tissue are tight/weak and need to relearn. This was found out on me by my FMS guy. That my opposite side had weakness. Now after a few weeks it is strong like BULL. LIke I said if it were not for knee and foot injury I would be running and boxing workouts.
Also I tried to swim at week 4 and felt too much of a pull when I was extended like you.
I also agree Meyers protocol is way too ambitious. Keep up the good work..
Surf....get me some tickets to ringling brothers....