When i was bedridden i read every single post on here at least 5 times.
I also read every one of Meyers papers at least 5 times.
I researched every doctor or therapist who appeared in those clinicals.
I also know people who are succesful with surgery are living their lives and do not stick around. I am an exception because i start my new job in July. I was a contributor on a back pain website (when i first thought this was lumbar) and the same held true. those who heal are living....those that don't are complaining or still seeking help.
Here it is in a nutshell:
#1 - Get a DIAGNOSIS (waiting to do this can unwind your pelvic compartment.....believe me i know this well)
#2 - If you are anti-surgery by all means try to heal yourself conservatively under the guidance of a professional versed in core therapy involving a neutral pelvis. (Do not listen to guys at the gym or forum people who have tried this or that.....I did and i kept retearing....i was told to arch backwards over a swiss ball to open up and stretch my psoas....well all it did was retear my RA)
#3 - If you are not satisfied with the level of healing that you are achieving consider surgery.
Please get all the REAL INFO you can. I mean DATA. But please understand the healing is YOUR RESPONSIBILITY not the doctors nor the therapists. And it is a bitch.....do not let anyone lie to you. Meyers told me it is a "Grin and bear it" type rehab.
I have talked to so many therapists and doctors (i also was in the medical field for 5 years) and most if asked will tell you their number 1 complaint is PATIENT COMPLIANCE. We are a quick fix society and many times patients expect the doc or a pill to do the work. It could not be further from the truth in this recovery.
If you can live with minimal pain and a slow recovery then therapy may be for you. However, if this is the first thing on your mind in the morning and last on your mind when you go to bed.....seriously consider surgery.
Like i said, i was hurt worst than most and much more deconditioned than most. I still look like an athlete from all angles but the side (LOL)...so i still have structure but i am not in the shape that most here are. I also am 4.5 years with this injury so there was a lot of other issues...
Back pain...compartment syndrome..2 labral hip tears...
I am 4.5 weeks out and PAIN FREE for 2 days now and actually able to run on grass. I could run on the road i guess but it would hurt my feet at this weight. Am i out of the woods....No....but i sure as hell am close. I forgot that my body can heal like this. Did Meyers do the 3 hours a day of stretches....excercies.....poolwork??? NO....but he put my pelvis in a position to strengthen itself. Before this surgery all my muscles....hip flexors....thighs....calves....were like concrete and now my NMT says they are more supple than most of his clients....So, i suppose Meyers put me back in a position to heal....For that i thank him.
All i can say is amazing!!! Keep up the good work and it is an amazing feeling not to have your testicle ache. Mine has been aching for 4.5 yrs and has not ached once since surgery. Forgot what it feels like.
With a good diagnosis.....good doctor.....and good rehab plan anything is possible.....and in fact probable.
I have also read this whole forum at least 2 times...but yuou have to take any forum post for what its worth and with caution.....who really knows whos posting...I take most of it with a grain of salt and dont put all my weight on it...but I do take it all into consideration......What I look for are the numerous athletes that have had there SH repaired by Meyers....McNabb, Kevin Curtis, Shockey, Garciaparra, Kinsler and theres so many more I cant think to name off the top of my head that have had the surgery from Meyers and I turn on the TV and see these guys playing at 100% running, cutting, taking hits, sliding, diving, jumping etc and that is all 100% fact because its right there before your eyes and not on some blind Internet forum....Thats what Im looking for for any conviction.....and the football player Miller is another I will be watching and soon to be Josh Hamilton.....these are the guys that are the proof.
SURF you post a lot and some of your stuff is some really good information...but to me it looks like your trying to convince yourself that you can heal a torn tendon/tendons thru rehab and bashing the surgery option......this coming from someone that doesnt even know if he has it......Youd hold more credit if there was proof you had it and then did your rehab protocol......your situation is just a guess at best right now....you may heal that tendon but I guarantee it wont be as strong and flexable cause what filled in there is scar tissue and that is just not flexable....when pushed it will only break up and your right back where you started...Ive been thru it over and over and over thru the 5 years....the scar tissue and any other build up needs to be surgically taken out of there along with god only knows what else they find going on in there...jsut read Alberts O.R. Report
I guess this is the internet and anyone can post anything they want so no biggie there but you would hold more credit in your posts with a REAL diagagnosis and not a self Diagnosis...........And if you have no money or Insurance then I can understand why you dont and why your Pro Rehab to fix this............Good luck with whatever you do
You should take a closer look. We already told you the WR's suffer the most violent of injuries to their groins. They are the fastest, make the most viscious cuts, get hit with the most impact, play in all types of sloppy field conditions.
Here is an actual article concerning MR. Curtis today. It appears he is doing okay.
McCoy Back On Field, WR Curtis Steps It Up
Turns out that the sprained thumb LeSean McCoy suffered on Friday in practice didn't slow him down a bit. McCoy was on the field on Monday as the OTA's entered their final week. He work a protective splint on the left thumb, but McCoy still was able to get out and go through the full practice. He caught the football well as the Eagles devoted part of their work to Washington's offensive and defensive schemes.
It is something head coach Andy Reid has done for years: Take a piece of each day's practice during the last week of these OTA's and give the players a glimpse at the schemes of NFC East opponents. The Eagles will see the Giants and Dallas, and probably Carolina, the Week 1 opponent, before the week is out.
Wide receiver Kevin Curtis stepped up his work in practice on Monday and he looked good racing down a deep throw and hauling it in. Curtis may not be 100 percent after his sports hernia surgery, but he is on track to be there for training camp.
"It felt good today after taking a couple of days off," said Curtis. "It was more than I had been doing, and it felt good. I feel like I'm making good progress."
-- Posted by Dave Spadaro, 1:48 p.m., June 8
I think this injury should be put in the proper perspective like any surgery. Lets take a knee injury or elbow injury in baseball. Most of the guys undergoing those procedures will return to play and others will not for a number of reasons. That being said we are each different human beings with different issues, genetic makeup, severity of injury and healing abilities. We all are built differently also in terms of posture/degree of underlying dysfunction.
So it just means that there are no guarantees with surgery and i think what all of us sufferers are after is the best chance to feel better and get out of pain. Some have higher aspirations like playing again. I do not so I my criteria for success may be much different than someone elses.
I just really want everyone to know the plusses and the minuses of this injury. Ultimately i wish all of us luck....even surf!!
As someone who was very anti-surgery, I'm going to try to give you an objective opinion here. I do think that you should try conservative measures first. However, I think without a doubt that you should get an MRI/proper diagnosis first to understand what you are up against here. Even though I had surgery, I will probably even have an arthrogram on my left hip because of a concern over labral tears.
I am still a big believer that conservative measures can work for certain people. Dr. Hoadley told me that most of his patients don't need surgery. I can't give you percentages, but that is what he told me. He said, that in my case, 18 months on the sidelines showed that it was not going to heal on its own.
Having said all that, I think if I had steadied my core rehab instead of pushing it faster, I might have avoided surgery -- because I was showing improvement. Overall, my symptoms were more mild then a lot of others, but I also stopped running/playing a lot sooner than some did; many continued to push it until a tear developed. There is such a fine line because this injury is highly sensitive. I showed improvement through rest and rehab a number of times, but I couldn't overcome the inflammation.
The one other opinion that I have is that you will read much more negative results than you will positive. I was a sports columnist for a short time, and I rarely had people tell me what a great writer I was. Typically, 90% of the responses were telling me "you suck dude!" Now, I could have been a really lousy writer or people generally display more negativity online than they do positivity. So when you read all of the downsides here, you are forgetting that all of the people who were healed move on with their happy lives running or playing soccer or whatever it is that they do.
But to make a long story short, don't sit around guessing like I did. It will just bring you misery. I waited too long to see a qualified doctor because I was confused and misled. I don't know how this is going to turn out for me, but I don't have any pain after day 18. I still have some minor inflammation and sore muscles. I don't know how it is going to turn out yet, but so far it has been mostly positive. Going forward with the rehab, I will find out whether or not I can get back in the game.
This injury is different and affects everybody different........For me the MRI showed a good sized Vertical Torn Rectus Abdominus tendon and a torn/shredded adductor tendon....5 years with this injury yet it hasnt kept me off the Field that much averaging about 100 softball games per year the last 5 years down from 150-200......granted Im probably playing at 60% of my abilities Im able to run, swing a bat and run down balls in the outfield...........Yes there are days when Im feeling 40% and will just DH......its really up and down..some days I can sprint and run the bases no problem...other days Im hobbled......REHAB and PROLOTHERAPY injections to the torn areas didnt work for me.....The MRI proved the tears are there...so I Know after 5 years that they need to be fixed.... So some with this injury are Non Functional and others are quite functional ....thats quite a big time variation.....What i am saying SURF is If you dont know what you have how the hell can you even do the correct Rehab for it...You could have one torn area or a multiple of torn areas...IF you dont know some of the stuff you are doing could be the totally wrong thing to be doing.........which is a half ass plan.......
And as far as Curtis there could be setbacks with any surgery...theres been plenty of guys who have had knee, shoulder and elbow surgery that needed a 2nd one.....all you could do is stay positive and have faith that your particular surgery is sucessful......But a guy like SURF is like the damn Grim Reaper......I say either stay positive or bring it somewhere else cause you seem like the kind of guy that says hey if I cant get better then Im going to bring everyone down with me....who needs that shit....this injury is frustrating enough wtihout that crap!!!!!
You seem to be making very good progress for only 18 days out.
One thing we can probably all agree on: There is only one post on this entire board where someone says they had sports hernia surgery and then fully recovered. I think that post mentioned Dr. Cattey, but gave very little info on the surgery or on the recovery. A very small post.
In this thread I see people who haven't had surgery saying, "Yes, Get Surgery!" I see the pattern of people who've just had surgery, who are valiantly trying to recuperate, say "Yes, Get Surgery!"
I have also encountered quite a few people in this huge thread who had surgery weeks, or months or years ago, saying "The result is not what I wanted. There are problems."
The one thing I have not encountered is someone who says, "I've fully recovered" and gives some detail. Not even one of those.
As we all know, sports hernia is a serious condition. Certainly for me it is the most serious health problem I've ever had in my 59 years. And it's complex.
Closing one's eyes and making a wish is not an effective way to deal with it. Having the whole group close their eyes and make a wish doesn't work either. Better to have open discussion, and many perspectives bouncing against each other, being judged by reason and critical thinking.
Twenty years from now, the knowledge about sports hernia is certain to be different from today. Then, people will look back on these times and say, "Too bad those guys didn't know back in 2009 what we know now in 2029."
As Popper said, Science proceeds by endless and ever refining cycles of conjecture and refutation. Everything should always be open to question. If we want to make progress, nothing should be accepted as dogma.
Thanks for the replies, guys.
Meyers essentially told me the same thing but didn't really say to do it as pre-op preparation. I called him back a few months ago after seeing him last fall because I wanted to make one last attempt to avoid surgery, by slowly ramping up from no athletic activity to moderate/intense working out to see if the pain came back (it did). I asked if he was OK with me doing that and could it make the injury worse; He said it might, but not so bad that he couldn't fix it, so there was no harm in giving it one final push. But since I tried skating a couple of months ago and had my pain come back, I have pretty much shut everything down except for walking between my office and the train station. My pain has been getting worse than when I was working out (walking down the street to get lunch today actually was pretty painful, which surprised me), so I'm not sure I want to start a fitness regimen with only a month to go until surgery. But maybe it's not such a big deal after all...
As for the continued debate re surgery vs. no surgery, like I said before, I wish everyone who is trying to heal AP without surgery all the best. My experience (2 years of no sports, 6 months of PT, felt like I was getting better but both times I tried to skate again had the symptoms flare right back up) tells me that PT/non-surgical approaches will take years, not months. Obviously everyone's different, but I do get the sense that a lot of other people out there have had a similar experience with trying non-surgical approaches and then finally giving in to surgery when those don't work.
Surf, if you're not too far from Philadelphia (or don't mind paying the plane fare) I'd recommend at least getting examined by Meyers and going for an MRI at the facility he uses, where they are specially trained to scan for AP. You don't have to have the surgery if you don't want to, but you might learn a whole lot more about your particular case after being examined/diagnosed by him.
Good luck to all.
Oh, and one thing I forgot to mention: before I got injured, I did TONS of core-strengthening as a regular part of my gym workouts, because core strength is so essential to hockey. I felt like my core was pretty darned strong, and certainly not weak/susceptible to stress. Also did lots of core work as part of the PT. So I'm not sure that improving core strength is the non-surgical answer for AP -- or at least not for everyone.
I really think that we who have a sports hernia would be better served if the surgeons like Meyers and Um got together with Orthopedics and PT's....and then devised a plan based on your body for both pre and post surgery exercises to deal with any dysfunctions that are going on....I think more of us would come out of this surgery at a better success rate....TO me if you have this surgery and just do that basic rehab they give you it may not enough if your body has further dysfunctions going on....perhaps that is a reason for some of the failures.....As for Kevin Curtis I think he was nuts to come back and play football after only 9 weeks......Like Meyers says maybe a Car accident can undo his work....the hits those guys those guys take in the NFL are worse tehn a lot of car accidents....and for Curtis to come back after 9 weeks and take thsoe hits duhhh I wonder why his first one wasnt successful.........No way a tendon repaired tendon is going to be strong enough at 9 weeks....Probably the baseball players and soccer players can get away with it becasuse of less contact
Guten Abend aus schönen Sparnberg, Deutschland. I have been through the pre-op process with Dr. UM and her assistants here in Munich/Starnberg, Germany. I don't have much to report that others have not already written on this board. Dr. UM's team is very thorough and of the utmost professionalism. The only thing that I can report is that despite 7 weeks of core work and cardio, my ultrasound actually found that my bulge is now .2 cm larger than when I was examined in New Jersey. I went though lengthy discussions with Dr. UM and her assistants about this damn injury and the bottom line is that for a majority of us this is a nerve issue and it will only get worse over time despite the attempts to rehab. Once the fascia tissue comes undone and allows compression on the nerves, there is no turning back unless it is reinforced. The procedure is tomorrow morning. I'll report back when I'm able. I'm 100% confident I will finally put this behind me tomorrow.
Mike in Va.
I wish you good luck with your surgery.
You are nuts. There are plenty of people on here who says the surgery worked. I can name a few without even going back...
Hernia Gal - pg 16
Waves 2 Ya
These are just the ones off the top of my head I remember. Like everyone else said most healthy people leave here.
If Josh Hamilton gets operated on that is good enough for me. Funny...his doc said there was no tear (Dr. Pinkett) and Meyers found it.
I have come to realize that Surf will not acknowledge anything besides his ideas....YET HE MAY NOT HAVE IT. Please.....Meyers has recommended therapy to people who do not need surgery.
His OR nurse also said that Meyers is such a perfectionist it is disgusting. Says we are in great hands.
So who would you trust:
A man who invented the surgery and thousands of people owe their health to and athletes owe their careers to. Ask Carrie Tolleson (Olympian who says he saved her career).
I have given examples that Meyers get a CORRECT diagnosis due to his MRI. If all docs are equal how come th Rangers doc could not find the tear.
Also Meyers is selective...Does not operate on everyone. I am sure Um is the same way.
Or a man who is afraid to get a real diagnosis yet will pontifcate like he knows. I have provided solid data...yet he ignores it.....people have given their experiences....yet he ignores it.
The examples he sites are 20% confirmed diagnosis...hardly a good statistic, yet meyers and UM have strong data that suggests otherwise, yet he poo poos it. He would rather go on the word of a select few who may or may not have AP.
I guess fear will stop some men in their tracks from getting a diagnosis. Kind of like the smoker who knows if he goes to the doc he will get a bad diagnosis. I learned in life it is best to be:
1) armed with the best information possible
2) be honest with yourself.
3) make an educated decision based on the fact presented to you
4) go with that decision
***I have run into the surfs of the world my whole life. IF you were to take an example of going into business, you may hear that 90% fail within the first five years.....If that is the case why do people do it?
The odds are completely flipped here and he still is crying the sky is falling.
I commend each and every person here who has gotten a diagnosis and made a decision for themselves either to try to rehab or have moved onto surgery.
There is light at the end of the tunnel. Just turn on the TV and watch McNabb or Brady throw. Or watch Shockey spike a ball after getting a 1st down being down by 21. Or Briere taking a slapshot. Or Carrie Tolleson medaling in the Olympics. How about Grant Hill running on the fast break.
I guess these are all failures.
Today i am pain free for the 3rd day in a row. First time in 5 years so i am biased. I also am doing my running regimen for the 2nd day in a row.
basketball court sprints
10 straight ahead
5 Cariochi (spelling)
Talking to Surf is like pissing in a fan. Useless.
Get the diagnosis...then spew knowledge
Surf says this,
"In this thread I see people who haven't had surgery saying, "Yes, Get Surgery!" I see the pattern of people who've just had surgery, who are valiantly trying to recuperate, say "Yes, Get Surgery!"
I do not recall people saying get the surgery. I have seen people saying
Get the diagnosis.
If it works GREAT
Get surgery.....It works.
He seems to have very very very selective recall of what people say. He has done that with the examples he uses too.
Selecting 10 people and only 2 had confirmed diagnosis.
I do not think anyone on here takes anything as gospel. I think the fact they are on here suggests they are looking for answers which is commendable. However, if someone ran into what surf said they would not consider surgery. Yet, he can tell everyone why surgery is so bad....even though he may/may not have AP.
The way he dismisses Meyers and UM is very disrespectful IMHO. To say even the experts do not know is crazy.
Next thing we know he will get a headache and go on a brain tumor site and tell people how bad surgery is and to get a collective of ideas up from joe the plumber.....carol the florist.....and john the pizza guy and we can come up with our own solutions.
BE FAIR AND BALANCED!!!
Mike in Va,
Viel Glück, Gute Besserung.
I for one have decided from this point on to bypass Surfs posts ....its not worth the aggravation .....its not in my best interest to even read or listen to someone who hasnt seen a qualified doctor, doesnt even know what if anything is torn, has made a self diagnosis based on an internet forum....and a lot of the ass less posts like trying to find out a thing in common that he has with others that could lead to SH like smoking pot, eating sweets etc tells me jsut where this gusy head is at ha ha ha.
For me ITs TIME for me to concentrate on MY situation which is in my hands....My Pre Op exercise routine to gain the most strength and put my body in the best position/ posture for this surgery........Time to prepare myself for the surgery and get all the little things that have to get done around the house before and then Get ready for Rehab after the surgery.....I will continue to follow all the guys who are also preparing for the same thing and reading up on all the others that have had the surgery and cheering for them everytime I hear a positive step they take.......Ill also report on my situation as I go thru it starting on 7/15.....We are all in this together and I can only hope we all come out successful
Best of luck in surgery tomorrow brother. Right behind the hotel there is a path that takes you straight into downtown starnburg.. It makes for a great post op walk. We are all praying for your speedy recovery, but with UM workin on ya.. Doubt they will be necessary ;)
Report soon bro.
Albert and JCSportsman,
I'm not saying surgery is bad. For many severely injured people who probably would otherwise never have been able to live a normal life, surgery has been a godsend.
For injuries as severe as yours, Albert, I think it would be unwise not to have surgery probably. Surgery was the best decision.
What I am saying is this -- there are many accounts in this very long thread of people very, very unhappy with surgery -- and any educated consumer, who must look after his own interest and make a life-defining decision about what course to take, should take into consideration the real, substantial risk involved in surgery.
Who knows? I may decide to eventually have surgery if I can't heal on my own. If I had young children, or if I was younger, or if my injury was different, then my calculation might be different.
I'm ignorant, and looking for more experiences from more people to learn from. But if someone says, "I hereby command you to believe such and such", that doesn't influence my intellect in the slightest. Not a bit. But if someone presents me with a new argument that is very convincing to me, intellectually compelling, then it influences the way I think, no matter who presented the idea.
If someone presents to me a new argument that has obvious holes in it, I can't help but reject it, even if I want to believe it, even if they hold a title.
All I want to do is get better, Albert. I'm looking for ideas and facts that make sense to the reason, that are compelling intellectually. If someone says, "The moon is made of green cheese", then even though I've never been to the Moon, me being a natural skeptic, and my prior knowledge of other things in life, tells me that's probably wrong. The Moon is not made of green cheese.
I've found a tremendous amount of good information here in this LetsRun thread, many valuable facts, ideas and theories from many smart people. It reminds me of General Patton encouraging his wartime general officers to debate more vigorously when he visited one of the divisions under his command. He said, "If everybody thinks the same, then somebody isn't thinking."
This message board serves us all best when every single one of us is thinking and talking. If everybody just watches and lurks, and doesn't give their own unique perspective, then sports hernia will continue to mystify us and harm us.
We can have different perspectives and beliefs and still be friends. We all have a better chance of healing when there is robust exchange of thought and critical thinking here in this LetsRun thread.
We need to hear from more sufferers of sports hernia.
Good Luck Mike!!
You are in good hands. The rest is up to you.