Could running every day actually be bad for performance?

Briefer, harder, less frequent > the opposite

liberals belong in hell wrote:

Briefer, harder, less frequent > the opposite

Ok, so faster paced runs maybe 4 days a week... should I still be doing fast 9 mile runs like my tempo's with the local CC team or more like 4-5 miles of faced stuff with cycling/swimming on the side for XT?

no, it couldn't be. Sure, in the short term, you may feel tired as you adapt to this very slight change in your routine but believe me when I say that you are not hurting yourself running a couple of miles everyday.

millions of years of evolution wrote:

no, it couldn't be. Sure, in the short term, you may feel tired as you adapt to this very slight change in your routine but believe me when I say that you are not hurting yourself running a couple of miles everyday.

Ive just heard conflicting information that you shouldnt be training on tired legs/tired bodies and that is a sign you are over doing it and wont be running your best. I am running most of my runs around 8:00/mi pace and it has been 8:10/mi this week on average with a higher heart rate by 5-10bpm...i just dont want to over train and i am known to over do my training

"Could be" well yes.

What are your goals and timeframe?

For example, if you starting to train for a April marathon, then you should be base building with lots of subLT miles.

another dot wrote:

What are your goals and timeframe?

For example, if you starting to train for a April marathon, then you should be base building with lots of subLT miles.

I have a planned Marathon race in mid May i may want to do. i have until the last day of january to decide before prices increase by $10. Should i keep running lots of miles and build to 80mpw by february (as planned) but just take my runs much slower, say from 8:00/mi to 8:45/9:00/mi with one fast 9-10mile tempo at 6:50/mi once every two weeks or so?

i want to sub 3:10 it

What have your "performaces" been for comparison?

jacobfrederick wrote:

Ive just heard conflicting information that you shouldnt be training on tired legs/tired bodies and that is a sign you are over doing it and wont be running your best. I am running most of my runs around 8:00/mi pace and it has been 8:10/mi this week on average with a higher heart rate by 5-10bpm...i just dont want to over train and i am known to over do my training

What kinds of heartrates are these recent runs producing (higher by 5-10 bpm)?

Do you know your max & resting HRs?

taking 3-7 days off after peaking, once, twice, or even three times a year might help you recover and run faster next season

Your body is adjusting to a 25% mileage increase. You should have gone up around 10% every two weeks.

25% is way too much. Crazy in fact.

Back off to 33 miles a week and after two weeks go to 35. Then after several weeks go to 38 and so forth.

When you get to 40 stay there for a month or two and then if you feel really good start the process again.

How old is the OP?

30-40 is nothing. Running 4 days a week is good to maintain weight. But not really a dedicated runner.

What is this, Runners World? Give me a break. There's nothing wrong with going from 30 per week to 40 per week and dealing with the fatigue by slowing down for a while. Unless you want to take 40 years to get mileage up to anything decent.

Balian wrote:

Your body is adjusting to a 25% mileage increase. You should have gone up around 10% every two weeks.

25% is way too much. Crazy in fact.

Back off to 33 miles a week and after two weeks go to 35. Then after several weeks go to 38 and so forth.

When you get to 40 stay there for a month or two and then if you feel really good start the process again.

Triumph of Grace and Serenity wrote:

What is this, Runners World? Give me a break. There's nothing wrong with going from 30 per week to 40 per week and dealing with the fatigue by slowing down for a while. Unless you want to take 40 years to get mileage up to anything decent.

+1

I've recently had a huge jump in mileage. I've been averaging a little under 30 miles a week for the last 3 years. I ran 162 miles in September, 197 in October, and on pace for about 220 this month.

I don't concern myself with weekly mileage. I just run as many days as I can until I start feeling tired like the OP and then I take a day off. My last few weeks have been 46,30,45,21,46,38,45,52,49,57,48,54. The weekly mileage depends on how many days off I took. Most of my runs are 7-10 miles but I have a lot of variation running roads, trails, and treadmill. I also vary between flat, hilly, and all uphill runs.

In September the most days I ran in a row was 3. In October it was 5 and now in November I ran 11 days in a row counting the last day of oct, took one day off and have run another 10.

My goal is to keep the quality up and when I know I can't do a quality run, then it is time for a day off. I have done a few easy days of 5-7 miles but at some point, I am better off taking a day completely off than running 2 or 3 consecutive easy days.

For performances, all I recently have is a 5:36 mile time, a tempo run with the local CC team at 6:50 for 9 miles, and a half marathon time of 1:39 a few weeks back.

I am 17 so still young

My heart rate have went from 160-165/170 and pace was slower. i took yesterday off and those readings were from the day before yesterday so maybe i was just having a stressful day

My max is about 196-198 and my resting is 45's

+1

Hardloper wrote:

Triumph of Grace and Serenity wrote:

What is this, Runners World? Give me a break. There's nothing wrong with going from 30 per week to 40 per week and dealing with the fatigue by slowing down for a while. Unless you want to take 40 years to get mileage up to anything decent.

+1

If you dont want to be tired don't run(ever). If you want to run well your going to be tired a lot. The thing with over training is at least you are in pretty good shape even though you can't maximize performance. Alternatively under training you definitely wont maximize performance.

Also 17 is a bit young to be doing marathons just be sure you are ready before you go and do some damage.

Also you are running pretty slow for your age did you start running recently?

jacobfrederick wrote:

For performances, all I recently have is a 5:36 mile time, a tempo run with the local CC team at 6:50 for 9 miles, and a half marathon time of 1:39 a few weeks back.

I am 17 so still young

My heart rate have went from 160-165/170 and pace was slower. i took yesterday off and those readings were from the day before yesterday so maybe i was just having a stressful day

My max is about 196-198 and my resting is 45's

Ok, this & your earlier post on paces is very helpful.

I think you're running a bit too fast for right now. Slow down... keep your easy runs truly easy. Like 8:45 pace or slower. You'll be able to tolerate the mileage bump much easier, and progress to either more mileage, or faster training much sooner.

I'm came to that conclusion a few different ways... so I'm fairly confident that's what's going on with your fatigue.

1. Pace: You were running 8:00 pace, and have now slowed to 8:10 pace. Not the bible, but a decent sanity check for paces is the Daniels Running Formula. Your 5:36 mile time is a 48 VDOT, which recommends easy pace no faster than 8:45 or so. Not sure if you're familiar with Daniels, but he feels that you don't need to go any faster than that to get all the benefits of an easy run. A little faster only wears you down. You need to go a lot faster (more like tempo pace of 7:02-7:32 to get different benefits.

2. Heart rate: 162 of 197 is 82% of your max. That was when things were "good". More recently, 170 is 86% of max. That's too high for an easy run. That's actually up in the range of a "fast aerobic", or not too far from marathon pace/effort, which is too hard for everyday training pace.

3. "Heart Monitor Training for the Completat Idiot". Great book if you want to get it. Written by John Parker, author of Once a Runner. Anyway, his book is exactly what I thought about when I read your first post. He describes the mistake that most people make is running their easy runs too hard, and as a result they never recover properly for the next run. They never get the "easy" part right of the hard-easy formula.

He suggests two key numbers:

the 70% recovery ceiling: (198-45)*.7+45 = 152

the 85% Theshold Floor: (198-45)*.85+45 = 175

Basically, keep your easy days under 152. That is going to seem ridiculously easy to you, but it will work. It will allow you to run MORE and MORE OFTEN. THAT is what will get you much better.

Then, once you've hit your target mileage for a week or two (won't take too long going that easy), you want to start adding in some hard days. He suggests keeping those days above 175.

If you wanted to during the base period, it wouldn't hurt to make a hard day a longer, slower tempo run in that mid 160s range... totally up to you.

The below 152 / above 175 formula will work so much better for you than what you are currently doing (the 160-170 range for every run). You are already seeing why it doesn't work - you are struggling to manage the 40mpw.

Just slow it down, get your arms around as much mileage as you want, and you will soon be licking your chops for either more mileage or truly hard days (above 175). It's the combination of mileage and truly hard days over time that will really make you improve.

Sorry this was such a long post, but hopefully it makes sense and helps. It took me a long time to figure this out... so I'd love to save you the aggravation & frustration of learning it the hard way.