Mo Farah the 1500m runner vs Mo Farah the NOP runner

Andreovitch wrote:

As I understand it, Mo was a 1500 runner in his younger years, running in the vicinity of 3:32.

3:33.98. He was definitely more accomplished at 5k/10k before he came to Oregon.

his endurance has not improved that much

his speed however has improved massively

this is a result of the intense weight work that he is doing all year long

the takeaway is that weight training cannot be ignored if one wants to have top level speed

Hardloper wrote:

3:33.98. He was definitely more accomplished at 5k/10k before he came to Oregon.

I believe that he was only staring to come on as a 5ker, and had not run any fast 10k's when he started with the NOP. He did spend a good part of his career on 15's and 3k's. In fact, he was doing that at the time when he should have been running PR's in the 15 (mid 20's). So why was he suddenly able to get all the speed when he ought to be "on his way out" of track?

He was a 5k-10k guy before joining the NOP and while there Alberto has done a lot to work on his speed, power and sprinting. He is a 10k guy but every week all year he is also doing speed work well under 1500 pace.

He believe he would go sub 3.30 this year.

He knew he could beat Steve Cram's British record (former World Record)

He needed the right race and he got it. He followed Kiprop.

Really Kiprop kicked his arse.

People mythologise so much about middle distance times as though sub 3.30 or whatever can only be done with drugs blah blah blah. Also a lot of people here are just trolling because they think it's funny, and sometime it is. But this has great influence on people who lack self esteem and start to believe that every top runner is doped.

I agree, but why do you think Mo is running that fast now? He is not training for the 1500. In fact, he was able, only a few months after his 3:28, to try for a half marathon with the goal of racing a marathon in the near future.

[quote]Canova>God wrote:

He was a 5k-10k guy before joining the NOP and while there Alberto has done a lot to work on his speed, power and sprinting. He is a 10k guy but every week all year he is also doing speed work well under 1500 pace.[/quote

I believe that, strictly speaking, you are not correct. He was somewhat new to the 5k, had not run close to world-beating times, and had not run any notable 10ks. He did spend years trying to be a 15 runner, only resulting in a 3:33.

But, assuming you are historically correct, are you of the opinion that 10k endurance training is responsible for his fast 15, or a return to a more speed-based regimen?

Patrini wrote:

I believe that he was only staring to come on as a 5ker, and had not run any fast 10k's when he started with the NOP.

He ran a 27:44 solo on the roads in London in May 2010 (I watched this, fun fact), then 27:28 later that year on the track. I believe either 2010 or 2011 when he went to Kenya for a month, Renato told him he should focus on the 10,000 because there wasn't much money in it therefore it wasn't as strong for the East Africans. Thus he decided to go to Salazar.

What you forget is that Mo's training before he went to NOP was nothing but terrible. Sleazy Sal should be credited for motivating Mo to work hard. But those weights, those fast easy runs, and that form change you all fap to don't mean a thing. Whoever could motivate Mo would have got the same or better results.

facts you don't like wrote:

...those fast easy runs...

What's a "fast easy run"? If Salazar has figured out how to do that daily, he's onto something big...

Hardloper wrote:He ran a 27:44 solo on the roads in London in May 2010 (I watched this, fun fact), then 27:28 later that year on the track

i didn't watch that race as i didn't really view him as an "elite" at the time ( = top african ) but a top european

i shoud have, as cram commented after his 26'46 that he was probably a near 27-flat guy before he came to sal on evidence of that 27'28 which was a pretty controlled run according to cram

mo when he joined sal was likely close to 27-flat

( his "controlled" 27'28 )

his prelim line of fit prior to sal was

~ 51.5 / 1'48.8 ->

3'33.9

4'51.2

7'29.5

12'55.9

27'04.2

very good 400 speed

( likely about same as kennster but of course not the endurance to produce 53+ in a 12'50+ but inferior to geb who likely had 50-high )

since joining sal, his shape on 3'28 day ( maya been better in moscow )

~ 49.9 / 1'45.7 ->

3'28.2

4'43.8

7'18.6

12'38.2

26'30.0

the crucial aspect is that sal has demolished his speed from mid-51 to high-49 but his endurance is unchanged

( 5k/10k ratio hasn't really changed - it may even be fractionally worse )

the "miracle" sal has performed is basically tacking on hugely better speed to same endurance

i don't think all that roadwork under sal has made him any "fitter"

sal has found the holy grail of finding immense extra speed but maintaining endurance

the take-home lesson is that if you eventually feel you have a good enough aerobic base for your chosen distance, don't waste anymore time on it, do sprint work

( lotsa weights/sprint reps/etc )

find speed, speed & speed again !!!

that's how you run 3'28 as a 5k/10k guy...

There is no way that Farah was capable of breaking the 2000m and 3000m world records by such margins last year. And they were likely the result of EPO when set.

I agree that his success is based on an improvement in speed under Salazar, but there is no way and indeed no evidence at all that the rest of those projections were possible. With improved speed comes some deterioration in endurance.

ventolin, this is the first time I've seen anything intelligent coming from you. Thanks.

not bad. wrote:

ventolin, this is the first time I've seen anything intelligent coming from you. Thanks.

It's not even midnight over there yet. Just wait, he gets drunker as the night goes on.

Euro sceptic wrote:There is no way that Farah was capable of breaking the 2000m and 3000m world records by such margins last year. And they were likely the result of EPO when set

err...

what was komen's 1500sb when he ran 3kwr ???

then remember komen ran a decrepit 13-flat 2/7 before the 3k & shoudn't even'a been running in rieti off that shiit effort

he did though & he was offered a suicidal 57+ opener !!!

try & think of a "rested" 3k with no runs for 1/52 before & a low-59 opener

as for the 2k, hicham ran it 1 time

a 4'44 with poor pacing

what on earth do you think he wouda run for it if he'd run it 1/2 dozen times in '99 in same shape ???

He ran 12:57 before Alberto and won the 5k 10k double at the European championships. He was a 5k guy that was new to the 10k before Alberto.

If we are to assume that drugs have not been involved I think the speed and higher quality training have been the biggest difference. His endurance has gotten better but Alberto's emphasis on closing speed seems to have translated quite well to the 1500. He trains smarter and more consistently now with the intention of improving his speed and endurance. This has made him world class at everything from the 1500 to 10k.

Euro sceptic wrote:

but there is no way and indeed no evidence at all that the rest of those projections were possible.

Renato himself said this year he thought Mo was capable of 12'40 / 26'30

Euro sceptic wrote:

With improved speed comes some deterioration in endurance.

no

[quote]killarney wrote:

eh ?

it's morning here in lemuria

& i'm a tea-totaler