Road Racing and Training Thread - Week Ending 11/17

Goal Race: Woodlands Marathon - 3/1/2014

Wow, I'm late to the party this week. Great training to be seen all over the place - nice work!

I had an okay week. Couple of good workouts and solid runs but unfortunately a couple of days off due to some old achilles issues flaring up. Not overly bad and nothing I've not dealt with before but taking a day off here and there to make sure it doesn't become unbearable or sideline me.

Mon: OFF

Tue AM: 10 miles with workout. 2M WU, 5xMile with 4 mins jog recovery in 4:57, 4:58, 4:55, 4:54, 4:57. 2M CD.

Tue PM: 12 miles at 7:45 pace.

Wed: 10 miles at 6:36 pace

Thu: 10 miles at 6:40 pace

Fri: 6 miles at 6:37 pace

Sat: 19 miles with workout. 2M WU, 2x2 mile with 2 mins jog recovery at 5:19 pace, 1 hour at 6:30 pace, 3 miles at 5:19 pace, 1M CD

Sun: OFF

Total: 67 miles

Racing my first half next Thursday so we'll see how the workouts and longer runs I've been doing over the past few weeks translate to the HM.

The Stone Cutter - Nice job with the 22 on Sunday and pacing your two buddies. Good effort from both of them. Solid 25 minute effort on Wednesday and very consistent as well, which is always a good sign - It shows you're hitting the paces appropriately and comfortably.

dcrunner0901 - Congrats the PR - huge jump in time. That was a crazy deep field. Training with a strong group can really make a big difference and seems like it has for you.

ForceRunner - Very strong once again. Best of luck at that race - looks like you're ready to roll.

cmm268 - Strong week despite being an easier one after Savannah. Take care of that shin and ice the hell out of it.

reed - Consistent week of training and you never know what can happen when you get out there on race day. Let's hear those beer mile results.

Ramanujan - Really tough to tell and the best way to find out is to hop in a race :) My Guess is somewhere around 17:20 - 17:30.

Perkunas - Wow - ripped that last mile on that 5xMile effort. Quite the cut-down. Good luck next Saturday in the 10k.

qrkid - Not shocked that your calves would be hurting after such a long layoff from this type of workout - nice 800 time. Stay on top of taking care of your calves, especially if that's what put you out of commission before. Strengthen, self-massage, ice, roll, stick, whatever you have to do.

xenonscreams - I noticed a lot in college that tapering hurt more people than it helped. The majority of people cut back their training too early, cut back too much, or changed too many things in their training at once and come race day they weren't where they wanted to be and sometimes had even lost fitness. This is especially true considering this week isn't even your goal race. I'm a victim of over-tapering myself and if you look at the national results from a certain year you can count from the bottom up and you'll very quickly see my name and the damage that over-tapering did to me. Sure I felt sharp and "not tired" on race day, but into the race I realized that I was actually no longer as fit as I had been. A monster taper isn't required for XC like it is for the marathon. I honestly think if you back down even 5-10 miles you will notice a big difference. Your season is going well so why change up too many things? If you simply slow down your easier days just a bit, back the mileage down SLIGHTLY while hitting the appropriate times on your workouts and keeping the frequency there, you'll be fine.

Runnersfix - That's no joke of a tempo, you especially crushed that last mile (faster than my mile repeat reps :) ! Strong run on Saturday and I'm sure the legs were feeling a little tired still from that solid Wednesday effort - pretty much to be expected. Great week once again - you're rolling along nicely.

Slartzio - Looks like a lot of tiredness and heavy legs. This may be the perfect time for a down week anyway. Hope you come back strong next week.

printer - That's a grind of a week - really strong efforts.

Portland - That 8xMile workout was a beast - you crushed it and rolled the last rep as well. Sunday was another very strong workout! Great work. Looking at these runs, I think you can rip up 2:45. As I mentioned last week, I wouldn't go too crazy but maybe start slightly faster tahn 2:45 pace and work down based on how you feel. Keep up the good work.

np1112 - Another amazing week - especially with the day off. Best of luck on your last big training week - get after it.

Logan Decker - Sometimes you've got to just allow your body to rest up and get over being sick. Hit that Tuesday workout and get ready to roll on Saturday.

NJ Truth - Congrats on the PR. May not be what you wanted but can't argue with running the fastest time of your life! Keep the progression you'll do great at club Nats then later destroy that 5k time on the track.

Once and Future - Congrats on an amazing week. hitting you're second highest mileage week ever and PRing in the 5k is nothing to sneeze at. Great work.

The Garbage Disposal - You really got out there and got after it and unfortunately fell just a bit shy. Take it as a step in the right direction, a good workout, and get a few solid weeks of training in and you can hit that sub 69!

Runfix: I am with you on the neg split idea for workouts. Just couldnt imagine a 45x 9th mile! haha. keep up the work

cmm: haha i bet so!

logan: hope ya get to feeling better soon. Starting to get colder and colder here. More fruits, vit c, and juice for me to try and keep things away.

NJ: congrats on the pr even if it isnt what you wanted. I cant imagine soloing times like that. Hope you can find something somewhat competitive soon. awesome long run too! must have been feeling amazing

Reg: congrats on another tough PR. If/when you get the cramping issue figured out youll be rolling!

Stone: haha nothing "crazy" but thats coming from me lol. probably another hill day mid week and a LONG run this weekend with usual weekly mileage.

Garbage: Congrats on the placing and time! So close to your PR the hard way. I think youll be ready to rock a 69 next time out. Should have stuck with those fuel belt guys up front ;) Thanks, glad I called the workout and tried to think about the next workout instead of making it up. Hard to do but the right thing.

Once: congrats on the mileage and 5k PRs!

Kilt: whew those are some workouts. How did you like the saturday session? Been thinking of doing something similar next year. Was there any rest before or after the hour at 630s or did you just go right into things?

Stonecutter - nice pace work and nice mileage bump!

Dcrunner - congrats on a stellar time! I can't believe there were 113 people faster than 32:49

Ramanujan - from 6:20 to 6:00 for a tempo is a big jump, sometimes I think the body flirts with higher performances before settling down to a new fitness. I had a similar experience with interval miles. 3 weeks ago I started doing miles repeats 3 weeks ago and I did all of them around 5:40/45. Now I'm back to 5:55 for a couple of weeks but I'm sure than in a month or so I will be more accustomed to that intensity/turnover and I will start begin more consistent with 5:40s.

Perkunas - Good luck with your 10k!

Hey all. 27 miles this week. Notables . . .

Mon-Saturday: Went for an occasional run, sat on the couch, drank beer (aka carbo loading) and waited for Sunday.

Sunday: CC race #5 - 8K Finals 27:56 - 5th place master, team champs, 4th place master for the series.

8K race. Perfect weather - mid 60s/sunny. Course primarily on wet grass with a decent hill to climb every 2K. The type of course that beats you down slowly and methodically until your legs feel like cooked spaghetti strands. Club team trailing in points and it all comes down to these finals. Some prize $ on the line for team and top individuals, but most importantly - bragging rights :) We needed a good one to win and would have our hands full. Went out purposely slow (5:30) and sat on the team rivals #2 and #3 runners, who have been beating me like a red-headed step-child all season. They led the 1st 2K when my teammate, who has been recovering from an injury, but is tough as nails, went by me and passed the rivals. Although I felt it was too early to make a move, I inched up slowly on the rivals and passed them around 4K. Our team running 1, 3, 4 (me) at this point and looking very good. We are deep and always have the rivals' 4th guy covered so I'm not worried about what's behind me. 4-6 K sucked ba!!s and I labored through it at about 5:45 pace, all of us in our same positions, but I now only hear 1 set of spikes chasing me on the 2 step sidewalk crossings. Their #3 has dropped off the pace. 6-8 K gut check time and rivals' #2 still on my shoulder. Our #2 lacks leg speed and I am A-ok jogging this race in with the rival, who is a very fast closer, and keeping him away from my teammate. If he wants to kick with me, bring it. My team still running 1, 3, 4(me) and we have the depth to close out the back end no doubt. We climb the last hill and I get a bit jelly legged coming back down it. Whoever decided to have the old men race 8K must have been smoking crack. 1000 or so to go and the rivals' #2 goes by me like I am standing still. I try and go with him, but he already has a few seconds on me and is trying to run down our #2. 600 to go. I can hear our supporters yelling "Man on!" at our #2. I'm struggling to turn them over, but not losing anymore ground on the rival. Both of us are closing in on my teams #2, who is digging deep. The finish line now in sight, we all get home in our respective positions. Our #1, who ran 27:00 and looks like he has already toweled off and had a beer, greets me at the end of the chute and says, "You look like Sh#%! Nice work."

Our team goes 1,3,5(me,7 - they only score 4, and (8) for good measure and the team win. We finally broke up the rivals' tough top 3. My finish also moved me up a spot in the final individual standings from 7th to 4th overall and a little extra coin in pocket. My unreliable garmin splits - 5:31, 5:34, 5:43, 5:49, 5:39. My 1st full CC season in 23 years is in the books. Oh, and I can barely walk today.

Cheers all - comments later this week.

Lots to comment on!

Slartzio - those are indeed recovery runs! Hopefully you'll be back to yourself in no time

Portland - cracking long run. Way to have that confidence in thinking you're in better shape than your target!

Np1112 - beastly hill session. Still see your training and mileage is still crazy :p. Good call on the day off too.

Runnersfix - impressive goal! I hope you achieve it, look forward to following your progress.

Printer - great job in the 5k. I know the feeling being beaten right at the death, but you can't beat yourself up over 2nd place!

Logan Decker - good call on dropping the running if you're not feeling up to scratch. Nice 400s session though!

NJ Truth - awesome week! Sub 6 miling for 18 after a 15:19 is no joke! Really impressive stuff.

Reg Fields - huge congrats on the marathon exploits. Some well deserved downtime is in order :)

Once + future - congrats on the 5k PB! Would that be Darlington UK by any chance?

GarbageDisposal - major congrats on the HM time! I remember before going AWOL on the thread that you were recovering from a big injury ( i think) but either way you have made up for lost time! :) all the best in your pursuit of sub 69! Sub 32 at the moment is a distant thought for me :p

Flying Kilt - solid week and some great sessions thrown in too!

Ca$hclay - awesome xc performance! Congrats to you and your team!

Woke up this morning to 2 very sore calves... Solid as a rock! Hasn't helped with the 12 hour shift today... Will be spending the evening with the make-shift foam roller (a rolling pin covered over with a towel) and a bag of frozen vegetables!

Printer- Man...that race sounded very intense lol. Seems like you ran smart. Stuck to your plan and let the kids over work. Just sucks you ended up 2nd. But good job overall. Nice week as well.

Hi folks,

Ran a few days easy this week of 3-4 miles. Ran philly marathon sunday and absolutely bombed. I decided to go out conservatively at 314 pace. I went through the half right at 137 and felt OK. Then bam at about 13.5 the wheels completely came off. Wound up walking/jogging the last half and finishing just under 352. Eek... Needless to say I need to figure out wtf happened.

Regardless, I'm not as down about it as I could be. I went out exactly as planned and for whatever reason I just fell apart. The obvious answer would be that I'm not in the shape I thought I'm in. However, I've looked back at my workouts and they are unquestionably better than when I ran 314. I did have a bad reaction to some chinese food on friday (msg allergy maybe?) and had some extreme tightness in my chest for an hour. Related? who knows.

Anyways, It's good to see lots of good weeks with you all. Keep it up everyone. I'm going to take a few days off. Then start gearing up for the publix marathon in march. I will definitely be thinking critically about my next training cycle and will make a few changes.

Cheers all

I killed that DNS yesterday at the Philly Marathon...

Stone Cutter This was not something I would normally do, start a workout with a hard 800. I was doing the 800m as a test, but wanted to do more than just that so I added the 400's. My focus was the 800. Also I did a pretty hard w/up to be able to just bang away at the 800. Think I might actually try this w/up before a 5k when I next do one. 2mi starting slow but building so the last 0.5mi is at about marathon pace. Jog for a couple minutes then do 1km at or just faster than threshold, few minutes jogging, 2 x 200m @ about 3k pace with 200m walk jogs between and then 3 x 80 fast with walk backs. So I was ready to go staright into a hrad effort.

Printer I hear you. Might be playing with fire doing quick stuff. Would not say I am focusing on quick stuff. I am doing a really general phase that tries to tap into each different energy system. So some fast speed ie the 400's, will do some vo2 stuff, some LT intervals and tempo's. Plan to cycle through all of that and then 8 or 9 wks prior to my HM I will get really specific with just LT Tempo's and HM pace workouts.

That all being said. You are spot on that the quick stuff can be dangerous. Hopefully I take enough time between hard efforts and let myself recover.

TheGarbageDisposal - I had ITBS for the first time 5 years ago and it knocked me out for 6 months. Never fully got over it, think I just inherited a bad back and leg from my mom. My knee will start to act up whenever I go over 60 mpw for long periods of time or when I get lazy and stop stretching my back or doing hip exercises. Over the past couple months my knee will bug me for a mile or two during maybe one or two runs a week, nothing too bad but enough to remind me that I need to watch out for it whenever I think about changing my training. Really just have it as a goal to keep myself from getting complacent and not taking care of it before it's too late again.

Flying kilt: 19 miles with the 5:19 repeats is sick. Great mile repeats! You are flying.

CMM268. Wow! I won't be able to walk let alone run for a week after 26.2. Machine status.

Garbage: 70:45!!! Awesome time and great week! Good luck getting under 69.

Once&future: 5k pr! Laying he foundation for sub 3:20 in the spring.

NJtruth: 5k PR!! And with two huge workouts prior. I think it's impressive you ran your 2 mile PR from HS 3 times in a row! And 18 @5:55 is sick!

Logan: recover buddy

NP1112: 97 w/ a day off? Crushing it!

Stone cutter: nice long run and overall week. Those people you pace are very lucky to have you.

DCrunner: 32:49!!!! Sick PR. Your in new territory now.

Forerunner: nice workouts and volume.

Reed: good luck at PA's. I've run that race many times in my 20's. Hard course. Lots of friends running it too.

Printer: great week!

RunnerFix: WOW!! Your on another level.

Xeon: good luck at upcoming races!

As for me: thank you very much for the input guys. I set my goal at 2:45 back in September based off a 1:18 1/2. I defiantly have made some jumps in fitness. The long runs and long mile repeat workouts have been a huge help. A part of me dreams of going 2:39xx on the perfect day. But I want to be smart and not blow up huge. So I will probably shoot for 1:21-1:22 as you guys suggested and see what happens the 2nd 1/2. With the work I've done maybe I can actually finish the last 5 miles this time without dying.

Stone Cutter - Nice week! Great job pacing!

dc - Nice PR! That’s a crazy deep field and you ran well. Congrats.

cmm268 - Hopefully your shin gets its act together soon! I have a few staple fartleks that I like to rotate, but I don't really know which one to do until I'm done with my warmup and see how I'm feeling. If I want some longer repeats I'll do like 5,4,3,2,1 x X, or for some turnover I'll do 30s/30s. Stuff like that.

Reed - Nice progression on the miles! Hey maybe you'll surprise yourself and do really well this weekend. Just get out there and give it your all.

Ramanujan - Nice workout on Thursday! And great volume this week man. Umm I'm not sure. I don't like to think of it on seven day cycles mileage wise, so I'll run a workout then two-three easy days before the race as my taper.

Perkunas - Nice close to your mile workout!!

Qrkid - Sheesh nice 800! And way to be smart and play it safe.

Xenon - Sounds like life is being life, but you're getting through it! Great week.

Runnersfix - Nice cutdown on the tempo. Very very solid week all around. For the fartleks, on Tuesday I didn't feel up to doing a full workout so I wanted to something moderately aerobic so I went with the 3,2,1s for 20mins. On Thursday I wanted to do something to get my legs turning over, so I went with 1/1. Its worked for me in the past, so I stick with it haha.

Printer - I'm gonna run the 10k Road Race on Thanksgiving in Cincinnati, so 10 days away! Nice week! That’s a great run on Thrusday.

Slartzio - For the mile workout, you might try jogging around a little bit to keep your heartrate up during the rest. Hopefully the pain goes away!

Portland - Nice volume and cutdown on the miles! Anf great long run.

Np1112 - 97 miles with an off day? Sheesh! Sounds like a really tough day on Wednesday.

Logan - Smart to play it safe while being sick. Get better soon!

NJ - Great job with the threshold workout! And congrats, a PR is a PR!

Once and Future - Nice volume! I remember that feeling of hitting over 50 the first time and being absolutely exhausted haha.

GarbageDisposal - Great HM!! Way to compete in the later stages.

Flying Kilt - Nice mile reps and long workout! Very solid.

Cash - I love reading the race reports you write up! Very entertaining.

Renewed Marathoner- not to make excuses but the humidity was over 90% that might have been a big factor in your race.

Renewed Marathoner- not to make excuses but the humidity was over 90% that might have been a big factor in your race.

Cash$! Awesome race report! You give me hope that I may still be running someday as a master runner!

Oh man totally going to comment this week! Only a day late!

The Stone Cutter: Sounds like a fun opportunity to run with a fiend and also to meet another poster from here :). And I usually do 3 up, 1 down, but my "down" weeks usually aren't a huge cutback (maybe 50 miles down from 70). I think I might benefit right now from a larger cutback.

Forcerunner: Nice week. I find the way you structure your training (lots of low-mileage doubles, three quality days) pretty interesting. What distance do you usually train for?

cmm268: Keep up the little things, they feel useless sometimes but they really pay off.

reed: Good luck! Are you coming to nationals by any chance? I also consider myself a "rhythm runner" and the key to getting better at XC for me (aside from hills and power exercises) was actually learning how to let go of times a little and just have fun with it. I would try it - can't hurt.

Perkunas: That's about my projected 10K based on my half and 5K (only 10K I've ever done was after being severely sick) and I'd be abso-freaking-lutely thrilled with a 5:39 at the end of that workout. You've got this!

RunnersFix: Very nice week.

np1112: Wow, that's a LOT over six days. Hope you're well rested to tackle another week!

Logan Decker: Feel better!

NJ Truth: "Technically a PR" usually means you're being too hard on yourself. I've caught myself saying that a million times. A PR is a PR. Nice run.

Once and Future: Wow, 5K PR and some of the highest mileage you've done in the same week! Impressive!

TheGarbageDisposal: Nice race given how you felt, I'm sure your goals are within reach on a good day :)

Flying Kilt: I think I actually respond really well to an aggressive taper. I know when I only cut back a little, sometimes I don't recover fully and my legs just feel like flat tires. I think this is highly individual. I still like to go fast during my workouts and I like to do lots of strides, but I get almost no benefit from volume before a race, so I only really do it when I want to stay in shape for a future race.

Ca$hclay: Nice race!

If anyone else ITT is running at club nationals I would love to meet up. Seriously. NJ truth I'm looking at you.

And thanks to anyone who is wishing my well. There's nothing new going on extrinsically, it's just my mental health that's suffering. Too much time on LetsRun! (Just kidding, love you guys). What I can say is that without my teammates I would be in a MUCH worse place right now, but they have intervened during my two most delicate moments, and they are probably the only reason I am still physically healthy. That support is something I will definitely try to utilize in overcoming the emotional/mental part of this.

Oh and I thought I'd mention that my sister ran the Philly Half. Not a goal race, just for fun. She did it without a watch and she ran the exact same time as her last half down to the SECOND. I guess good pacing skills run in the family :)

not doing nationals xenon, gotta stay as far away as possible from you LRCers. i wish we had chosen to do it, but i guess your officers this year got lazy. its nearly tuesday with our race on sunday and we don't have a hotel yet. at this rate we'll be driving up at 4am. ridiculous. next year i'll be VP or something to keep the club rolling

somebody mentioned overtapering...i think i may be a fellow victim. i've had many good early-season races where i didn't taper at all other than a couple easy days. i'm not tapering for my race this weekend. just gonna aim for another 65 mile week, and gonna consider the race as a hard workout. also gonna make sure my easy runs are really easy this week.

Was a poor week for me. Life got in the way

Monday 6.5

Tuesday 6.5

Wednesday off

Thursday 4

Friday 0

Saturday 0

Sunday soccer game (8ish)

Left my shoes at college when I went home this weekend. Just got busy with other things. Hoping to get back to running again this week. The soccer game however was a testament to the fact that I am making progress. Was in way better shape than the previous games I played. We were down three men the whole game and held on for a draw. I made some runs that surprised myself.

Hope everyone had a good week!