NCAA Declares BYU's Jared Ward Ineligible becaus of Fun Run

How does this rule apply to the 90% of NCAA DI hockey players, who play 1 to 3 years of hockey in the USHL or a similar junior hockey league in Canada. The majority of these guys are taking a gap year or years, playing 80 plus games of hockey, and enrolling in universities as 20 year old freshman. If you don't follow collegiate hockey, understand that this in now the norm. My 90% isn't much of an exaggeration.

Goucher Needles wrote:

How does this rule apply to the 90% of NCAA DI hockey players, who play 1 to 3 years of hockey in the USHL or a similar junior hockey league in Canada. The majority of these guys are taking a gap year or years, playing 80 plus games of hockey, and enrolling in universities as 20 year old freshman. If you don't follow collegiate hockey, understand that this in now the norm. My 90% isn't much of an exaggeration.

If they're 20 as a freshman, they'll still only be 23 as a senior. Ward is TWENTY FIVE. Time to grow up and do something with your life buddy.

OverTheHillAndBackAgain wrote:

It's an undeniable fact that on average a 25 year old with 4 years of training > 22 year old with 4 years of training. Fortunately, and rightfully so, the NCAA ignores this because it deems religious missions a worthy cause. That's not the point here.

Is this a serious post? It is in no way an "undeniable fact". Have you even provided any data to support this?

so did we get the answer about how Rupp was able to compete in the NCAA???? Let's see, races in Europe vs. a fun run!??!

Ward graduated from high school like 2005-2006. So here we are 2013-2014 season. Don't even want to go to the football teams ages.

So what exactly are the physiological benefits that occur after 23 that magically transform someone into a superior athlete? You still haven't provided any examples/evidence. Does muscle composition change? Mitochondrial density? Blood chemistry?

Without training, simply being 2 years older offers no advantage.

I've never been convinced that they don't train at all on their missions.

This is the pertinent rule. The key is participation in "organized competition" that occurs more than one calendar year after high school graduation and prior to college enrollment.

(For the poster asking about hockey, there is an exception for hockey that appears to give a grace period until age 21 for pre-matriculation competition.)

The rule:

"14.2.3.2

Delayed Enrollment—Seasons of Competition.

14.2.3.2.1

Sports Other Than Men’s Ice Hockey, Skiing and Tennis.

In sports other than men’s ice hockey, skiing and tennis, a student-athlete who does not enroll in a collegiate institution as a full-time student in a regular academic term during a one-year time period after his or her high school graduation date or the graduation date of his or her class (as determined by the first year of high school enrollment or the international equivalent as specified in the NCAA Guide to International Academic Standards for Athletics Eligibility and based on the prescribed educational path in the student-athlete’s country), whichever occurs earlier, shall be subject to the following:

(a)

The student-athlete shall be charged with a season of intercollegiate eligibility for each calendar year

after the one-year time period (the next opportunity to enroll after one calendar year has elapsed)

and prior to full-time collegiate enrollment during which the student-athlete has participated in

organized competition per Bylaw 14.02.11.

(Revised: 4/29/04 effective 8/1/04)"

There are also now specific rules for track/cross country road racing but since these became effective after the fact in Ward's case, I'm not sure they have any application.

To wit:

"14.2.3.2.1.2

Track and Field and Cross Country.

A student-athlete who has participated in organized competition after the one-year time period (the next opportunity to enroll after one calendar

year has elapsed) and prior to full-time collegiate enrollment during a cross country, indoor track and

field, or outdoor track and field season (as opposed to general road racing events) shall be charged with

a season of competition in the sport in which the student has participated for each calendar year after

the one-year time period in which he or she participated in organized competition.

(Adopted: 4/29/10

effective 8/1/11; applicable to student-athletes who initially enroll full time in a collegiate institution on or

after 8/1/11)

14.2.3.2.1.3

Road Racing.

A student-athlete who has participated in road racing activities after the

one-year time period (the next opportunity to enroll after one calendar year has elapsed) and prior to

full-time collegiate enrollment shall be charged with a season of competition in each of the sports of cross

country, indoor track and field, and outdoor track and field for each calendar year after the one-year time

period in which he or she participate in organized competition.

(Adopted: 4/29/10 effective 8/1/11)"

http://www.ncaapublications.com/p-4322-2013-2014-ncaa-division-i-manual.aspx?CategoryID=0&SectionID=0&ManufacturerID=0&DistributorID=0&GenreID=0&VectorID=0&

isk wrote:

OverTheHillAndBackAgain wrote:

It's an undeniable fact that on average a 25 year old with 4 years of training > 22 year old with 4 years of training. Fortunately, and rightfully so, the NCAA ignores this because it deems religious missions a worthy cause. That's not the point here.

Is this a serious post? It is in no way an "undeniable fact". Have you even provided any data to support this?

Yes, it's very common for male physical development to continue into the early 20's. Therefore, 22 year old may still be developing physically, whereas as 25 year old is more likely to have stopped developing. Furthermore, part of physical development is growth of muscle mass. Muscle mass happens to be used for running. Thus you can logically conclude that 25 year old all else equal is superior to a 22 year old.

barry mccockiner wrote:

Who's going to support these runners for two years while they wait to go to college? Will a scholarship still be there for them two years later? They don't have the church to support them.

Their church doesn't pay for their missions. They pay for it themselves with help from family in most cases, and certainly in Mr. Ward's case.

I really dislike BYU, but this is kind of a lame ruling I think. Technically correct? Sure. But still lame.

thlwedfa wrote:

barry mccockiner wrote:

Who's going to support these runners for two years while they wait to go to college? Will a scholarship still be there for them two years later? They don't have the church to support them.

Their church doesn't pay for their missions. They pay for it themselves with help from family in most cases, and certainly in Mr. Ward's case.

I really dislike BYU, but this is kind of a lame ruling I think. Technically correct? Sure. But still lame.

Regardless, they are being supported over those two years by someone other than themselves. Most kids wouldn't have parents hold them up like that if they wanted to wait.

Dude on my team (not BYU, not in Utah)went on a mormon mission straight out of high school for two years. He started college running this season. I have heard from his mouth that he trained the whole time he was on mission. It wasn't good training necessarily. It had to be done very early or very late in the day and it seemed he had to stay in a restricted area or something. Either way, he definitely was allowed to train at least according to his branch of mormon or whatever. He isn't associated with BYU so I dont know if they have different rules. BTW all religion is fvcking stupid and these missions bring harm to the world. Move on with life Ward.

OverTheHillAndBackAgain wrote:

Yes, it's very common for male physical development to continue into the early 20's. Therefore, 22 year old may still be developing physically, whereas as 25 year old is more likely to have stopped developing. Furthermore, part of physical development is growth of muscle mass. Muscle mass happens to be used for running. Thus you can logically conclude that 25 year old all else equal is superior to a 22 year old.

No. That is not a valid conclusion. Muscle mass does not automatically make you faster. In running, it is more likely to slow you down. Who can run a faster mile - Rupp or Mike Tyson?

He didn't accept money. Just entered a fun run during a year out of school.

http://www.cbssports.com/general/eye-on-sports/24219697/byu-runner-denied-eligibility-by-ncaa-after-running-in-recreational-race

"The decision also hurts BYU's cross-country team, which is ranked fifth in the country and has a chance to win a title at the NCAA championships in two weeks. That's likely out the window without Ward."

LetsRun.com's story on this case appears below:

NCAA Has Docked 13:37 American Jared Ward For Entire Year of Eligibility For Running in a Foot Locker Coaches Race During Year Off From School

barry mccockiner wrote:

I've never been convinced that they don't train at all on their missions.

Depends. You have to be with your companion all the time and leaving, by yourself, to go on a run would break a major rule. So, if you can get your companion to go on runs then you're good. True story.

asdgees wrote:

barry mccockiner wrote:

I've never been convinced that they don't train at all on their missions.

Depends. You have to be with your companion all the time and leaving, by yourself, to go on a run would break a major rule. So, if you can get your companion to go on runs then you're good. True story.

There is this whole thing called the treadmill... I've done big workouts on them personally.

asdgees wrote:

Depends. You have to be with your companion all the time and leaving, by yourself, to go on a run would break a major rule. So, if you can get your companion to go on runs then you're good. True story.

Or at least have them willing to go to a track or park and sit while you run laps. In either case, you have to have a companion willing to get up very early to accomodate your running.

My brother ran collegiately pre-mission, went on a mission, put on too much weight due to not being able to train, come home, and lost his scholarship. He's been slow and overweight ever since, and he had pretty good potential.

LDS missions help those who actually make it to their senior year, as they are older (yeah 25 is closer to your peak as a distance runner than 23). But there are several, several LDS runners who can't get back in shape after and end up losing scholarships and/or quitting. It's a double-edged sword for sure. And anybody making generalizations that it always helps or never helps is an idiot. It's certainly a case by case basis. I would argue it has helped Jared Ward and some others on BYU's, SUU's, Weber's, and Utah State's (basically all Utah colleges) varsity teams. However, it has hurt just as many runners if not more.

Our story on this case is up:

http://www.letsrun.com/2013/11/ncaa-docked-1337-american-jared-ward-entire-year-eligibility-running-foot-locker-coaches-race-year-school/

Treadmills: godless devices? wrote:

asdgees wrote:

Depends. You have to be with your companion all the time and leaving, by yourself, to go on a run would break a major rule. So, if you can get your companion to go on runs then you're good. True story.

There is this whole thing called the treadmill... I've done big workouts on them personally.

Once again, yeah they can use a treadmill, but they'd have to have their companion agree to get up extra early and go with them to the gym. It's not easy to get 19-21 year olds to agree to wake up at 5:00 AM just to do you a favor.

I know several utah college runners who served missions and none of them came back in better shape than they left in. It takes a good 6 months to a year to re-gain pre-mission fitness in most cases.

Trust me, they may get in a few jogs on their missions, but less than 1% are lucky enough to get any "real" training in while they serve their missions.

Several of them do however ride bikes everywhere, which could help maintain some fitness. While others walk around all day, which also helps to a certain extent. But no one would call that an advantage for coming home to compete in cross/track.