Road Racing and Training Thread - Week Ending 11/10

Woops not sure what happened, let's try again

Goals - no IT band syndrome!

sub 17 5k (December?)

M - 7 easy 7:45ish

T - 9.5 (3.5 am, lactate threshold test in lab, 6 afternoon with 8X200 @ 38-40 with 200 jog rest around a minute)

W - 9 (3 am @ 8:30+, 6 afternoon @ 7:50ish)

Th - off, really sleepy and figured I should take it easy instead of forcing an easy 5

F - 9, 4 X 1600 with 3 min rest in 5:45, 5:32, 5:33, 5:31... HELL YEAH!

S - 7 starting at 7:40 down to 7:10ish, felt really good

S - 9 @ sub 7:15, had some pep in my step

Total - 50.5

Lots of 9 mile days this week, did a couple doubles too, first time in a while. Tuesday was a weird day because the threshold test got cut short in class so I didn't feel like I got enough of a workout in but was tired enough to not want to do anything hard so 200s it was.

Thursday... Freaking awesome run. Last time I did 4X1600 was a month ago and I ran 5:58, 5:45, 5:47, 5:43 so this week was pretty much the same except 12 seconds faster all around. Before this workout I had only run 3 sub 5:40 miles all year and none of them were under 5:35

Had my killer tempo last week and decent APFT with short rest and this week I had a solid 1600 repeat session. Either I'm getting better at putting in my solo efforts on workouts or my training is coming together and I'm making some solid improvements. Can't wait to race again at the turkey trot.

Printer- Awesome week man and I concur with Stone Cutter that it definitely looks like you're on track to be in shape to take a shot at your PR.

Runnersfix- Great week man with 3 quality sessions. Got a quick question for you though: when you're cutting down at the end of those long runs and picking it up the last 6 miles, do you have specific paces you want to hit each mile or do you just generally crank up the pace slowly and run whatever pace your effort gets you?

Diesel- It's nice to see you go from posting cross-training weeks to posting 20-30 mile weeks. Soon you'll be doing 40s/50s and etc... Keep up the progress man.

Perkunas- Solid week man with a good mix of everything. Also reminds me that I have been neglecting my weekly runs with my biggest dog since we moved.

CMM- Yeah I have heard that RnR is running some sort of special for the Savannah/San Antonio/Vegas triple. Are any of the guys you talked to also doing San Antonio on Sunday morning?

New Orleans is definitely a goal race followed by a week off and a 10-week cycle for Boston. I have spent a lot of time going over my training logs from the last few years and one pattern I've noticed is that I tend to do well with 8-12 week cycles when training for marathons. Anything longer than that and I have a tendency to over train. Although nothing like the 5-week turnaround you pulled off, the two times I ran two marathons within 10-13 weeks I have run solid PRs at the end. (13-minute PR the first time, 6-minutes the 2nd). I think maybe part of it is that the races are close enough that the painful memories of going out too hard in the first marathon is still in the back of my head heading into the 2nd marathon. :)

Slartzio- Nice weeks man. Some solid mile repeats this past week as well.

Logan Decker- Solid week and hell of a workout on Friday with the mile repeats.

TheGarbageDisposal- My main focus honestly is being prepared for my 20 milers I have planned in the training cycle. I don't have specific paces though, except the first 10 miles of the run. My long runs started at 12 miles this cycle but will build up to the 20 milers. No matter what the first 10 miles are at recovery pace or close to it, then as the mileage for the long run increases just the progression distance increases. I just pick up the pace at every mile throughout the progression. I can usually get to around 5:00 the last mile but I'm saving it for the 20 milers. I really recommend this approach. Treating the long run (almost) as a workout has probably been one of the most important factors for me, especially for the half marathon.

Logan Decker wrote:

F - 9, 4 X 1600 with 3 min rest in 5:45, 5:32, 5:33, 5:31... HELL YEAH!

bodes well for sub 17 as long as the effort was correct.

for me 4-5x1600 under control with 3min jogging recovery is 5k pace plus about 8 seconds/mi. so if i do 4x1600 in 5:08, it means my 5k pace is 5:00. for that to work, the effort must not be too great. you should definitely be able to do 6x1600 at 5k pace plus 8 sec/mi.

my week:

goals: 32:59 10k on 11/28 and possibly a half marathon 12/14

oops, dunno why i hit submit

me week: (aiming for 32:59 and possibly a 1:13:59 half in december)

M 8, 6:50s

T 10, 6:50s w/20min fartlek

W 7, 7:10s

Th 9, 7:30s

F 12 w/1mi in 5:15, then 5mi in 28:07, 5:38/mi, then strides

Sa 9.5 7:30s

Su 13, 6:50s w/7mi 6:25s

total 68, 7:07/mi

good week but the tempo was a bit slower than planned. today's 6:25 thing was helping somebody else out with a MP workout

next week: tuesday will be a barn-burner. either 1600s or 2000s. if 1600s, i'll shoot for 5:05s. if 2000s, i'll shoot for 10k pace or 5:18s

@TheStoneCutter Solid week. Do you have any idea of what kind of distances do you want to race in spring?

@Cmm268 Congrats! Was there any money prize?

@RunnersFix/TheGarbageDisposal Great weeks, and I completely agree with you about treating your long run as a workout.

Goal - PR in the 5K this fall

Next Race - 5k this Saturday (probably)

M – Off (planned - had to play in a 60 minute student/faculty soccer game)

T – 10

W – 10.5 - Interval workout

T – Off (planned)

F – 11 - Tune-up workout

S – 6

S – 17.5 - 5K race

Total Mileage – 55

Wednesday's interval workout:

3 mile warm-up/3 mile cool down

3 x 1600m with 800m active recovery (~3:58) - 4:47 average

Felt absolutely dead from the soccer game. I definitely over exerted myself. Still very sore from the game too.

Friday's tune-up workout:

5 mile warm-up/3 mile cool down

1 x 1200 @ HM w/400m active recovery - 3:54

2 x 400m @ 5K w/400m active recovery - 72, 71

2 x 200m @ Mile w/200m active recovery - 31, 31

2 x 200m @ 5K w/200m active recovery - 34, 34 (a tad fast)

Sunday's 5K race:

3 mile warm-up/3.5 mile cool down + 8 miles easy about an hour later

5K - 15:34

Supposedly the course was about 0.1 long, which according to my splits kind of makes sense. When I saw that I wasn't anywhere close to where I wanted to be at 15:00 i shut it down and took the last bit easy. Whether it was long or not, I'm not one for excuses. Either way its not what I was looking for. So I think I may jump into another 5K next weekend and see what happens.

Goal Race: Woodlands Marathon - 3/1/2014

Bonked a workout last Wednesday and decided it was best to run easy the rest of the week. This also gave me a chance to get the down week that I had missed before. Overall, I was pretty disappointed about this and couldn't deal with posting or talking about running so I stayed off the forums. Will go back now though and catch up with everyone's workouts - hope they went well!

Ended up replaying last week this week and had a solid one:

Mon: 10 miles at 6:34 pace

Tue: 20 miles at 7:30 pace

Wed: 11 miles w/ workout. 2 mile WU, 8 mile tempo at 5:38 pace (5:31, 5:38, 5:37, 5:45, 5:37, 5:39, 5:42, 5:35), 1 mile CD

Thu: 10 miles at 6:27 pace & strides

Fri: 10 miles at 6:48 pace

Sat: 20 miles w/ 16 mile workout. 2 mile WU, 8 miles at 5:43 pace, 1 mile in 5:19, 4 miles at 5:45 pace, 1 mile in 5:18, 2 miles at 5:40 pace, 2 mile CD

Sun: OFF

Total: 81 miles

Will be back later tonight or tomorrow to comment - Looking forward to it.

First of all, there are some insanely fast guys on here. Your training and racing is inspiring!

Race: California International Marathon 12-8-13

Goal: Sub 2:45

Monday: 20 miles. 6:58 average. Last 5 (6:42, 6:50, 6:32, 6:15, 5:42) made up for long run I missed day before. Felt strong.

Tuesday: 5 miles. 7:20 average.

Wednesday: 5 miles. 6:49 average. Pushing my 1 year old.

Thursday: off. Unplanned. 17 hour work day

Friday: 7 miles. 7:21 average.

Saturday: off. Unplanned again. 16 hour workday. Rough week work wise.

Sunday: Had planned a all out 1/2 marathon race. Bagged it. Ran 15 miles. 6:54 average. Last 5 (6:42, 6:38, 6:34, 6:34, 6:03)

Total: 52 miles w/2 days off

Work was rough this week and I lost a ton of sleep due to working at night this month. Plus extended shifts two days. Got in two good long runs. I think I may be capable of a faster time then 2:45. I was going to use that 1/2 to help set my time goal a month out. Excellent training everyone.

Goal: HM in mid March

M - 6.5mi (7:47)

T - off (planned)

W - 6.5mi (7:19)

T - 5.5mi (7:45)

F - 6.5mi Tempo

S - 6.5mi (7:19)

S - 11.25mi (7:27)

Fri Tempo: Due to weather and time constraints I never got a workout in during the week, so I figured I would throw in a little tempo effort during the Friday run. 2mi easy, 4mi tempo (6:16, 5:56, 5:44, 5:40), 0.5mi easy. Was meant to be an aerobic threshold/MP tempo. 1st mi slightly up and last 1.5mi slightly down hill so those 5:40's are a little quick but most probably more like a 6min/mi effort.

Will come back later to comment on what looks like a ton of good stuff by everyone.

Stone: Great Wed session. Thats great that you can help pace friends. It is a good feeling helping someone out anyway you can.

cmm: Thats awesome! Solid time and a podium finish congrats!

Force: no wonder the rest felt short, 200m isnt much haha. good call on taking it easier if you arent feeling well.

king: Very nice friday workout. Consistent splits, got faster, AND felt good. what else can you ask for?!

Raman: Thursdays run would be a good one to try and run off of feel eventually. Good for your body to know how they feel and get dialed in.

Garbage: Youre gonna learn the hard way to not go out hard like a little kid anymore ;) haha. Perfect luck on picking the short and hilly race. Might be a good call for the longer taper for Vegas if youre feeling a little rubbery.

Printer: Hell of a week. Lots of quality and marathon pace and faster runs. Hope you can keep it up also and get a good time in december! How is the course?

Runfix: Wow what a week. mile repeats, temp, and long/progression. I like those long progressions. Makes time go by on the longer runs faster and it shows how much strength you have built.

Diesel: keep up the consistent work. Get the shin feeling better and your efficient stride will come. Sounds like youre doing things the smart and right way.

Perkunas: congrats on the long run. Dont you love it when you mis judge a run length. at least you werent feeling like crap? haha

Slartzio: great weeks. I wouldnt know what to do during a standing rest haha. When is your goal 10K?

Logan: very awesome quality week. You smoked those 1600s! I think your goal is already in reach

Reed: great week. That fast mile before the tempo is different. Guess it gets you used to a fast first mile and then a solid effort? Do you know what 10k or half you might be running?

NJ: sucks about the race. I like your attitude about everything though. Get over it and get ready for the next one! You are def in shape to pop a good one off very soon.

Kilt: Very nice quality week and all in singles! No worries about bonking a workout. happens to everyone and thats why they are called training runs. You will learn more from a bad workout than a good one (usually in my case).

Portland: Wow rough work week. But you still managed to get some great longer runs in. You must have had one of those good days Monday to close that fast!

Qr: Good effort on the tempo. No worries on missing a workout. Stuff happens and life gets in the way haha

Okay now that I am caught up finally!

Goal: Lookout Mountain 50 miler 12/14

Mon: 6 + 5 (11)

Tues: 6 + 7(5kBP) (13)

Wed: 6 + 4 (10)

Thurs: 6

Fri: 3 + 3 (6)

Sat: 17.5(Half) + 4.5 (22)

Sun: 23

Total: 91

Planned down week. But then Garbage talked me into finding a half marathon haha.

Tues: 5k building pace in 17:15. 542,37,24,0:31. Felt really good after I found my rhythm.

Sat: Half marathon in 1:17:21. Was REALLY windy. News said 15-25mph and I believe it. Of course it seemed like if it wasnt in your face it was blowing you all over the road.

Was in the port a pot when they started the 10 sec. countdown. Race started 2 min early. I thought for once I was going to time things perfectly, nope! Gun/chip time were 15 seconds off, not too bad.

Worked my way slowly up to the front and was in the lead pack just after the first mile. Then I jumped out front to try and push the pace (goal was 540s) but it was just too windy. So I decided to run by effort and just go for the win. Around mi 4-5 the other 3 guys (1in the full) in the group decide to work together against me (i think) because I wasnt helping break the windy. One guy said something to the others and they picked it up. I kept the same effort as they put 20-30 seconds on me. I started to work back up around mi 9. Went into 2nd just after a decent hill into the wind around 10.75/11? and then into the lead around 11.5/11.75. Felt really good towards the end and glad my altered strategy worked to pull off the win.

Splits were 549,53,43,57,603,07,556,56,41,48,603,538,42,1:07(0.21)

StoneCutter - Great week again. It's good that you are listening to your body instead of straining to hit some weekly milestone. The 60 mile weeks will come but remember the main goal is to "stay healthy". Fun stuff to get out there and pace some friends. Gives you a more enjoyable session and I'm sure they appreciated it. Keep up the good work.

cmm268 - Congrats on the third place podium finish - well earned!

Forcerunner - Another very strong week, especially considering you backed off your long run as well. Smart move given how close you are to your goal race - take care of yourself. Interested to see how this race goes in a few weeks.

King hobbyjogger - Consistent week of training. I agree that your in a good spot to go under 17:30. Any plans to race soon?

Ramunujan - Sounds like you are way ahead of schedule early on. Keep up this good work followed by a strong winter break and you're in for a great spring season.

TheGarbageDisposal - Take what you can from the race - it was a solid effort. You are also coming off a big week last week so its to be expected your legs aren't 100% there. Rest up and best of luck next weekend at the Las Vegas half -get that sub 1:09!

xenonscreams - Congrats on the weekly mileage PR. Stay on top of that PF and keep up the good work.

printer - Very nice week. Also sounds like a great Saturday long run! I ran at Duke once and it was a great experience, and that wasn't even on game day. Keep gunning for that 18 y/o marathon PR.

RunnersFix - Dude you crushed it again. Your just rolling through the schedule. Thought about your schedule this week actually when I was running a little too quick on my easier days. Told myself to be more like RunnersFix and try to back it down a little bit so I can give myself a chance to get after the workouts harder.

Diesel - Life/school/work gets in the way sometimes. May have been a blessing in disguise anyway since it gave you a chance to take care of your shins.

perkunas - Congrats on the longest run in 5 years. Bet that 200' finish was rough! Getting close to goal race now. Ready to roll in a couple of weeks?

Slartzio - Good two weeks of training. Cruising those mile repeats. Any date in mind for racing the 10k?

Logan Decker - You've been crushing it the past couple of weeks. Looks like you are rolling into shape. Working out solo can take a bit of adjustment but definitely has its benefits as well: Mental toughness! You're definitely going to see this come race day and cash it on these efforts.

reed - The structure of that tempo on Friday makes it tough, but I like it! Did you roll straight into the tempo after the hard mile or was there rest? Either way, that'll gas you're legs a little bit. Good luck on Tuesdays workout.

NJ Truth - Last time I played soccer was at the end of a 100 mile week and it put me out of commission for a week! The joys of getting old. Really impressed with your workouts this week - really quick. I Wouldn't be too disappointed about the race, whether the course was long or not. If you figure the soccer game as a fartlek of sorts then you essentially put in 3 harder sessions/workouts before racing on Saturday. If you hit another 5k in a week (maybe two), I think you'll crush it - you're clearly fit.

Portland - Nice week with two days off and a crazy work schedule! Probably a good call to bag the half considering those interruptions. You killed that Monday run 20 miler, closing hard. If you think you've got a little more in the tank than goal pace, then I'd recommend starting at the original 2:45 goal pace and then crank it down based on feel during the race.

qrkid - Solid week of training. Have a goal pace in mind for March or TBD?

np1112 - Dude, we're obviously all a little crazy in the head but you're training is completely nuts to me and I think its awesome! I seriously love reading your updates each week. 45 miles over the weekend is badass. Win a half on Saturday, double back that afternoon, then hit the 23 mile long run on Sunday? no big deal. Congrats on the Win and if those guys have a problem with you they can suck on your winners medal. You gave them a head start with your port-a-potty fiasco and pushed the pace early on in the race. Your not team-mates with them and certainly don't have to play pacemaker for them. Way to take it down and look forward to continue reading your training.

Week of 11/10

Mon- 2.9 miles, nice and easy. Didn't even wear a watch.

Tue- 5 X 1/2 mile on a rolling road loop, 90 sec rest. Started off a little too hard, finished up hurting (2:33, :35, :35, :36, :40). 5 miles total

Wed- Off, very stiff from the previous workout

Thu- 3 miles, nice and easy, shaking out the legs.

Fri- 4.7 miles, moderate. Went out at ~6:30 pace, came back at 7:15 pace.

Sat- First day of Stage Race (3 races in two days, lowest cumulative time wins)

Stage #1- 3 mile TT with ~550 ft of elevation. 22:07 for 2nd overall, Went out just a little too hard and was running out of steam halfway through. 3 or 4 uphills that were short, but 30%+ gradients, really took a lot of steam out of my legs. I don't train on trails, so my body wasn't used to grinding up hills and pounding down them.

Stage #2- 4.7 miles, ~500 ft of elevation. 34:26 for 2nd on the stage. This stage started out a little easier, grassy XC style trails for the first two miles. Four huge hills and some mid-calf deep swamp crossing had me in uncharted territory for a guy who trains on roads, and then the last .05 miles climbed 60 feet. The guys who beat me was about 1:30 behind me from stage 1, So I moved into the overall lead by a little over 90 seconds.

Stage #3- 10.5 miles, ~1000 ft of elevation. 1:17:01 for 4th place on the stage and a narrow overall victory after losing sight of my closest competition about 8.5 miles in.

This stage was absolutely ridiculous, it hit the hardest sections of both of the previous day's courses, plus two new difficult sections that I had never seen before. I had 1:35 on the guy who was 2nd overall, but he put a little gap on me about 3.5 miles in up a long grinding uphill that I chose to hike (trying to keep my HR down). I managed to keep him within about 20 seconds of me for the next 5 miles until I lost sight of him after climbing what I can only describe as a 50 foot high wall. After running the whole second stage with him the day before, I knew that if he was putting time on me, he was really, really stretching himself to do so, so by the time I lost him, I figured he was about 40 second up on me. The last difficult section involved climbing the same two hills twice on different trails, with steep descents and rolling, twisty trails between them. The RD was perched on top of one of the hills, and told me that I was running about 45 seconds behind, and that I had better get moving on the last section or I was going to lose it. Looping down and around the base of the hill a mile later, I faintly heard him shouting "30 seconds!". Crap, I was losing time fast, The legs were completely shot, and I could climb no more. Fortunately, the last 1.2 miles were on flat, muddy path, and I managed to get back into something resembling a rhythm. I even clipped off a 6:10 mile somewhere in there, I guess because the flatland muscles hadn't really been used all day. The finish line is perched on top of one last steep grassy hill, so I threw down what little finish I had and damn near tipped over. Two of the guys who finished already were waiting for me, and given how quick they were to congratulate me, I gathered that I had won. In the end, I pulled back a little time and maintained my lead by 40 seconds.

The intent was for this to be a stiff training weekend. It turned out to be just a touch harder than I had planned on (this was my second trail race ever, and the first over 4 miles), but I was happy to come out with a win, especially since my brother won this same event a few years back (gotta keep up the family tradition!) I might just have enough in me to shamble through 3 miles today. We will see.

Weekly totals: 40 miles including warmups and cooldowns, with 24 of it coming on Friday and Saturday. This week is going to have to be a recovery week. Next race is a 10k on Thanksgiving. With any manner of luck, I'll be able to turn in ~35:00 or thereabouts.

Yikes, sorry that was so wordy. I'll keep it short next time.

Goal: Spring Marathon

Next Race: 8k on 11/16

Late to the party as usual and I did not even bring a gift.

Mon: 6

Tue: 7 (20 x 200 with 100 jog)

Wed: 8 miles

Thurs: 0 with strenght training

Fri: 6

Sat: 8

Sun: 10

Total: 45

My ankle is slowly getting better, but now I have a knot in my calf. I think it is a knot, all I know is that it doesn't bother me unless I touch it and then it hurts like hell. This past weekend I decided to work it out, so I rolled it a ton and now my calf is black and blue. I think I am going back to the "don't touch it" plan.

On Thursday I did the "boot camp" type workout with some other guys. Lots of core work, jumps, squats and work on the rowing machine. I am really week in this areas and need lots of work to get myself stronger for the spring. I was sore as hell afterwards and only now am feeling better. I am going to try and work up to 2 of these classes a week and see if I can get myself going.

The only other big thing is that my son has decided that as far as the morning goes, daylight savings time never happened. So every morning, 5:00 rise and shine. So now I have to run starting at 9:00pm after he goes to bed. Needless to say I am sleep deprived..

good week to everybody

Stone Cutter - You are a hell of a half marathon pacer, Good luck this weekend

CMM268 - congrats on a great race!

Logan Decker - nice improvement with your workout paces

NP1112 - congrats on the win. That's funny that the leaders were working to drop you and they failing. nice

Flying Kilt- That's great to know. Thanks! Once it becomes routine you'll be able to hit the pace without even trying. The best part is you'll be able to get after it in your workouts. You won't feel as tired and sometimes even have that snap in your legs that you would usually feel during races mainly. I'm a 14:50, 24:38, 1:06 guy and aim for that 7:15-7:30 range even though it can be a few ticks faster or slower.

The Stone Cutter - looks like a solid week even with 6 days instead of 7, I've been doing a lot of 6 day weeks lately and I think one day completely off has really helped me stay fresh for workouts

cmm268 - Congrats on the 3rd place finish!

Forcerunner - do you do a lot of your workouts on grass? I've always had a hard time putting in a decent effort and stick to the track.

King - nice tempo and pace on the long run

Ramanujan - nice workout Thursday, especially after running a quick 8 miles on Wednesday, must have been feeling pretty good

TheGarbageDisposal - too bad about your workout, hopefully the longer taper helps you recover

Printer - wow, nice week. That's a lot of long singles.

RunnersFix - that long run blows my mind, got pretty close to tempo pace there near the end. I may need to try that when I start building up mileage again in a month or so

Diesel - I think that a fartlek or weekly hill/tempo workout could still help you out as you're trying to get your base going.

What do you guys eat prior to a marathon?