The Current State of U.S. Marathoning:

sp2 wrote:

Let's be honest: it's just freaking paTHETIC.

The most famous marathon in the world, in America's greatest city, in the ultimate spotlight for the sport --a sport we freaking INVENTED, forty years ago-- ... and the BEST we can do is 2:13, and 2:35??

We invented the marathon 40 years ago? I wonder if Clarence DeMar, Zatopek and Bikila know that?

There is absolutely no depth. I ran 2:25 in New York in 1981 and it was good for 106th place. That would be 21st place this year. There were tons of U.S. runners in the late 70's and early 80's that continued running after college, most with full time jobs. It seems like now there is a sliver of top runners and then a huge drop off.

dmv wrote:

sp2 wrote:

Let's be honest: it's just freaking paTHETIC.

The most famous marathon in the world, in America's greatest city, in the ultimate spotlight for the sport --a sport we freaking INVENTED, forty years ago-- ... and the BEST we can do is 2:13, and 2:35??

We invented the marathon 40 years ago? I wonder if Clarence DeMar, Zatopek and Bikila know that?

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Yep. As a big-time, big-money, world-wide, high-exposure sport, we invented it.

I thought most readers would probably be smart enough to understand the point. In your case, I probably gave you too much credit.

Before Frank Shorter, it was nothing.

(And that's no disrespect to any of the great runners who came before, it's just a statement of fact.)

If that's over your head, that's too bad.

Question is - why are more runners stopping comp running after College? It seems in the 70s/80s there were a lot more who did the full time job + running thing. Is it that there are more activities (like crossfit and mudruns) that diluting the pool of future marathoners?

sp2 wrote:

Take away Hall and Ritz and Meb, and Deena, Shalane, Desi, and Kara... and there's just NOTHING there.

that's 7 people.

but yeah today was lackluster. you'd hope we have a 2:11 guy.

Can you imagine what it would've meant if a Ryan Hall had been able to keep it together well enough to get into this race in good shape today?

He doesn't need to win the thing, just be IN the damn race!

If he could just have run 2:10 today, that would've been so much exposure for him, for the sport, and for American running, it would be almost ridiculous.

If Bill Rodgers was running today, he'd be a goddamn mega-star --and a multi-millionaire.

What is it? wrote:

Question is - why are more runners stopping comp running after College? It seems in the 70s/80s there were a lot more who did the full time job + running thing. Is it that there are more activities (like crossfit and mudruns) that diluting the pool of future marathoners?

The main reason is that society has evolved. In the 70s you could live pretty cheaply, so you didn't have to commit too fully to a job. Now, you work after college. Also, now that running is a professional sport, those of us who aren't good enough to get a sponsor are discouraged from training hard after college as "Wasting our lives" running since it isn't an actual job.

Salt Lake City man wrote:

sp2 wrote:

Take away Hall and Ritz and Meb, and Deena, Shalane, Desi, and Kara... and there's just NOTHING there.

that's 7 people.

but yeah today was lackluster. you'd hope we have a 2:11 guy.

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I didn't notice any of those seven people in the race today, did you? (Or anybody else even CLOSE to their level.)

That's the point.

sp2 wrote:

If that's over your head, that's too bad.

No, it's too bad for YOU since you're the one trying to make a point not anyone here.

Clayton ran 2:08 before Shorter even ran a marathon, and Shorter never got close to that time - fact.

The course was short and he was on PED's - no one could run that fast (and not be an American) otherwise in the 1960's.

gto wrote:

Clayton ran 2:08 before Shorter even ran a marathon, and Shorter never got close to that time - fact.

sp2 wrote:

Can you imagine what it would've meant if a Ryan Hall had been able to keep it together well enough to get into this race in good shape today?

He doesn't need to win the thing, just be IN the damn race!

If he could just have run 2:10 today, that would've been so much exposure for him, for the sport, and for American running, it would be almost ridiculous.

This happened just 5 years ago when Hall finished 4th and Meb won the race. It didn't change a thing.

I would agree that we have no depth at all in the marathon, unlike middle distances where our depth has never been greater. Either we are just not attracting the talent or we have given up the sport to the East Africans.

gto wrote:

Clayton ran 2:08 before Shorter even ran a marathon, and Shorter never got close to that time - fact.

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Yes, Clayton was great.

That has nothing at all to do with the discussion.

Are you guys honestly this stupid?

Almost no one CARED when Clayton ran 2:08, because almost no one paid any attention to the Marathon till '72, when Shorter, and Pre, ignited the Craze.

The Running Craze of the 70's is an American phenomenon.

Without it, the sport would still be nothing.

We INVENTED the sport you're watching on TV today.

That's why it's so especially pathetic to see what we saw.

I'm going back to the real world now.

I'll leave the high-schoolers to spend the rest of the day insulting each other.

Have fun.

kls wrote:

No, it's too bad for YOU since you're the one trying to make a point not anyone here.

This

sp2 wrote:

I'm going back to the real world now.

I'll leave the high-schoolers to spend the rest of the day insulting each other.

Have fun.

the irony

NotAustin18 wrote:

What is it? wrote:

Question is - why are more runners stopping comp running after College? It seems in the 70s/80s there were a lot more who did the full time job + running thing. Is it that there are more activities (like crossfit and mudruns) that diluting the pool of future marathoners?

The main reason is that society has evolved. In the 70s you could live pretty cheaply, so you didn't have to commit too fully to a job. Now, you work after college. Also, now that running is a professional sport, those of us who aren't good enough to get a sponsor are discouraged from training hard after college as "Wasting our lives" running since it isn't an actual job.

Aren't you still in high school? I was around in the 70s. Back then, people got jobs and trained hard. A problem now is that post-collegiates think they need to be in a training group that gives them what they think they need.

sp2 wrote:

Can you imagine what it would've meant if a Ryan Hall had been able to keep it together well enough to get into this race in good shape today?

He doesn't need to win the thing, just be IN the damn race!

If he could just have run 2:10 today, that would've been so much exposure for him, for the sport, and for American running, it would be almost ridiculous.

If Bill Rodgers was running today, he'd be a goddamn mega-star --and a multi-millionaire.

Are you serious about Rodgers? The man had a PR of 2:09:27. Comparing the stars of yester-year to where the sport is today is just plain wrong. Rodgers, Salazar, Shorter, etc. would have been simply crushed by the B-level East Africans of today. The marathon has evolved. The vast majority of the best East African talent are racing the roads. It's where the money is at. Their very best athletes are competing in marathons. The very best athletes in the U.S. play other sports. It's pretty simple.

I agree that the lack of depth in American marathoning is very concerning.

It starts all the way down in the schools--xc and track are after thoughts in United States schools. The big sports fb bb bball and hockey get all the support.

Change that plus the hunger factor-- the us could be right up there.

Is it that there are more activities (like crossfit and mudruns) that diluting the pool of future marathoners?

I hardly think a potential world class marathoner is out there slumming it at some mudrun. There's a better chance of a potential gold medal coming from a homeless crack addict presently living under a bridge.