Why can't American coaches figure out how to train for a marathon

I'd agree that the more people you have to train, the better that group will become. However, if you think the current crop of African marathoners aren't talented well...

Color blindness.

We gotta fix something wrote:

. . . We have had four guys under 13:00 (not counting Lagat) and one even at 12:55. I do not believe that we are not running fast marathons because of talent. . .

Actually we've had five (Solinsky, Ritzenhein, Tegenkamp, Kennedy, and Rupp). That said, of the top 50 5000m performers of all time exactly one (Solinsky) was not born in Africa.

You mean like those Argentinian, Columbian, Turkish, Mongolian, Georgian, Indian, Egyptian, etc. Coaches? Or are you only comparing the US coaches to Ethiopian and Kenyan Coaches?

Americans do not understand how to suffer. Suffering is essential in marathoning.

fair argument wrote:

Americans do not understand how to suffer. Suffering is essential in marathoning.

Likewise, why are their no Tour De France winners from Kenya or Ethiopia? Is it that suffering is essential in cycling and Kenyan and Ethiopian cyclists don't know how to suffer? They same could be said for dozens of other sports.

Citizen Runner wrote:

We gotta fix something wrote:

. . . We have had four guys under 13:00 (not counting Lagat) and one even at 12:55. I do not believe that we are not running fast marathons because of talent. . .

Actually we've had five (Solinsky, Ritzenhein, Tegenkamp, Kennedy, and Rupp). That said, of the top 50 5000m performers of all time exactly one (Solinsky) was not born in Africa.

I left off BK because I was referring to relatively recent times.

World Beater wrote:

You mean like those Argentinian, Columbian, Turkish, Mongolian, Georgian, Indian, Egyptian, etc. Coaches? Or are you only comparing the US coaches to Ethiopian and Kenyan Coaches?

I'm comparing US coaches to coaches who have had success in the marathon. The reason I'm doing that is because he have had success at other distances. Can you see the connection? Isn't it reasonable to think that if you're talented enough to medal from 800-1/2 marathon that you'd be talented enough to run a marathon? So no, I don't really care what a coach on Mongolia or Georgia does unless they have coached a winner. What's wrong with that? Please give me some excuse as to why we are not competitive at marathon yet are competitive at the distances below it.

you can't change a 1000 years of evolution, yet some continue to believe the BS science some post here....just open your eyes....even the little child knows the differences, but smart educated college people don't seem to get it?.....stats don't matter to them, physical differences, don't matter to them, organic life style don't matter to them, on and on, .......etc....I would to believe someone like hall and ritz and run a 203s, but it's not going to happen, not even on down hill course!

I did give you an answer. We are competitive in the marathon with the exception of Kenya and Ethiopia.

Let's get coach Squires out of retirement or let him be a part of the new B.A.A deal with Mahon. Squires is still the best US Marathon coach we have.

What you are saying about coaching may be true but that doesn't exclude lack of talent. To take your example, where are there 50 Americans who have the physical ability and the financial ability to train with Ritz? They don't exist.

There probably were 50 Americans of Ritz's age who - if they had been raised in the right environment and received the right training - could be at Ritz's level, but that didn't happen. Most potential Ritzes and Halls were sitting inside playing Xbox when they were young, don't like running because it makes them sweaty, didn't go out for XC or track, didn't run in college, and didn't continue training after college. If they competed in any sport, it probably wasn't running. So most potential top American marathoners weren't identified and trained in Ritz's cohort and that continues to be true with succeeding cohorts.

What the US ends up with is a tiny number of Americans who continue training after high school or college, and this tiny number does not necessarily include the runners who started with the most potential. And there are not enough financial resources out there for 50 Americans to choose to train with or like Ritz rather than choosing another career path.

Salazar and Schumacher may or may not be good marathon coaches and may not be getting everything they can out of the talent they have. But they are also starting out with less talent than Kenya identifies and starts developing year after year.

We gotta fix something wrote:

In recent years I feel that Americans have begun to figure out how to run fast from 800-10000m. We have medaled in the 800, 1500 and the 10000m.

Medaling does not equal running fast. Americans have yet to run fast in anything above 800 or 1500.

You focus on a couple of individuals and extrapolate it to the whole country.

You eye every move of Ritz and Hall.

What about Patrick Makua?

He sets a WR in 2011 and then runs 2:06 in 2012 and 2:14 this year.

How about Moses Mosop? He just ran 2:11 but had run 2:03 flat at Boston in 2011.

Someone needs to figure out how to coach Kenyan marathoners to run to their potential and be consistent.

polker wrote:

We gotta fix something wrote:

In recent years I feel that Americans have begun to figure out how to run fast from 800-10000m. We have medaled in the 800, 1500 and the 10000m.

Medaling does not equal running fast. Americans have yet to run fast in anything above 800 or 1500.

I disagree. The year that rupp ran 26:48, that was one of the fastest times of that season. Same with solinskys 12:55.

* wrote:

You focus on a couple of individuals and extrapolate it to the whole country.

You eye every move of Ritz and Hall.

What about Patrick Makua?

He sets a WR in 2011 and then runs 2:06 in 2012 and 2:14 this year.

How about Moses Mosop? He just ran 2:11 but had run 2:03 flat at Boston in 2011.

Someone needs to figure out how to coach Kenyan marathoners to run to their potential and be consistent.

Let's see, Mosop ran a 2:11 because he was going after a course record and blew up. It's called running with balls. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't but if you never try you'll never know who fast you can go.

Halls 2:06:16 stands up with just about any other 13:15 runner. To bad he really hasn't been the same since then. If the US had 50 of them a year instead of 5, you would see 40 of them running road races and marathons to pay the bills. As it is we tend to get past their prime guys (Teg) trying to move up. Not every 10ker/hm can run a good marathon. But if you have 40 of them you can ignore the 20 that can't and focus on the 20 that do survive.

Rupp ran 7:30i - this is one of the fastest times of all time.

How have the Africans "figured out" the marathon? Like 9/10 of them fell apart so miserably they were further off their abilities than Ritz.

We had ONE runner with a hope of catching the leaders' shadows. He fell apart, a bit, like most Africans. If we had 10 runners like Ritz in the race, I'd bet one or two of them would have hung on for a great race.