Confused about the coaching i get

We all think you don't know anything about writing a training plan and should get off the internet and do what your coach tells you.

Ditto. Quit asking us and go ask your coach. If she's worth her salt she'll explain what she is doing.

As a general rule I never allow "race pace" work to go slower than 3:00 pace. If it gets any slower you are just learning how to be slow. If your general fitness is not good enough to run 3:00 min pace then it doesn't matter much what type of running you do. You just need to run.

DI Coach wrote:

As a general rule I never allow "race pace" work to go slower than 3:00 pace. If it gets any slower you are just learning how to be slow. If your general fitness is not good enough to run 3:00 min pace then it doesn't matter much what type of running you do. You just need to run.

You would make a very poor coach for many runners. The notion that some absolute pace is the ultimate dividing line between race pace and not race pace no matter the runner is misguided.

ok ok i am really sorry i just didn't know

i dont think ill ever be back here so don't worry

I need a picture first, to assess your potential based on your physical build.

AliceWantsImprovement wrote:

ok ok i am really sorry i just didn't know

i dont think ill ever be back here so don't worry

Don't listen to them. LetsRun is a harsh place.

Being analytical is a good thing. Some coaches know what they are doing. Some don't. Most are somewhere in between, imperfect beings with some running knowledge. Your coach could be anywhere on that spectrum. Blindly listening to a coach just because she's in a position of authority is dumb. It is a great way to run poorly. You should be involved in your own running. You should know why you are doing everything you do.

So if you don't think something makes sense, the first thing you should do is speak up. Ask why you're doing it. See if the answer makes any sense at all. If a coach can't answer "why" then that's a HUGE red flag. But maybe she does have a reason, so yes, ask her first and hear her out.

i did ask her and she just keeps drawing it back to the mile and telling me i will be able to sustain that pace even though i don't think i am ready. that's why i was asking here. But i really appreciate your answer because you seem to be the only person here who knows that good performances stem from a runner actively working with their coach. a successful runner cannot be a mindless robot who follows orders. I will talk to her more but thank you for making me feel better.

That's the problem with 16-22 year olds. They think they are qualified to make adult decisions. They also think they know it all. Bottom line is you should train more and surf the Internet less...then you might be a half way decent runner.

DON'T LET THEM HATE ON YOU ALICE! YOU ARE AMAZING, AND I KNOW YOU ARE SMARTER THAN YOUR COACH, DO WHAT YOUR HEART TELLS YOU TO DO ALICE!!!!!!! LISTEN TO YOUR HEART!!!! :)

It doesn't make sense for a coach to assume that you'll be able to run your current mile pace for a 5K with some training. Plenty of ~17 minute 5K runners can TT a mile in under 5 minutes. I certainly don't expect all of these 17 min/5 min guys to turn into 15 minute 5K runners by the end of the season.

Your workout sounds pretty good and based on what you've written your coach seems to know what she's doing. I'd stick with the training plan for at least a few seasons before I started questioning it. If you do not see progression, your times getting faster in races, that is cause for concern, but you shouldn't distrust the training plan until that happens. And like others have said, ask your coach to explain her method, how she plans to get you into peak shape for regionals, division, state, a big invite, whatever, and why it will work, not letsrun. Best of luck in xc.

AliceWantsImprovement wrote:

i did ask her and she just keeps drawing it back to the mile and telling me i will be able to sustain that pace even though i don't think i am ready. that's why i was asking here.

Of course you're not ready. If you were then you'd be doing it now, right?That's the whole point of training. To progress. The season just started. Progression takes time. Did you think it was only going to take a week or two?

This takes some time, and you are a new runner, but you will want to listen to your body for signs of pain, being tired, out of breath, etc. and then adjust your effort in a workout to how you feel. Hopefully you will learn what it feels like to run 6 x 800 (or another set of intervals) relative to your current mile pace (or another current race performance). If your coach gives you a hard time for running slow, say that you are feeling pain, etc. and you are running as fast as you feel you should. Most people here ran in HS or college and enjoyed it so much that they spend their free time on this site to discuss the sport. Have fun.

Anybody who really is a D1 mid-d coach would immediately realize that something's a little odd here.

There's a good article on Lagat's training written by Dr. Li in the BMC News Spring 2009 pp. 22-23 with actual workouts. One of these workouts is

4X800 @1:59 2 min rec + 2X400 2 min rec

I find that trying to run 4X800 at mile pace with 2 min like Lagat is too hard for most D1 guys (surprise, he was a double medalist at the time!), so we use 4X800 with 4 min at mile pace, not 3K or 5K pace.

Now, either your stated rest period is not accurate, or you are in a lot better shape than you think. Looking at what you did, there is a method from Frank Horwill that says you can split a workout into sets with half the rep break and a set break in the middle. So, if you could actually do 2X4X800 with 1 min reps/5-10 min sets, you should be able to run a 5K at that pace right now.

Nothing wrong with workouts at mile pace for a 5K runner. But the stated rest is too short, especially for this time of the year. Bob Kennedy used to do 800s with 1:40 rest slightly faster than 5K pace. If you are training 5K pace, I would not be going shorter than 2:00, and if you are training mile pace, I would be going for more rest than that.

You could be seeing that your speed is fine for your 5K goal, but you may need to do more sustained stuff like long tempos.

Alice does have a better sense of her develpment, and maybe of the sport in general, than her HS coach. Please quit pandering to the idea that HS coaches "get it", too many (and more than one is too many) don't - this one in particular.

I certainly don't want to cause a rift between you and your coach, but if you have already spoken with her and her answer is less than satisfactory (alright just plain stupid), then you have 2 choices (perhaps more).

1st - train on your own and forgo HS XC (not a good option because it's not your fault that your coach is stupid - blame the idiotic scholastic system for putting you in this spot in the first place) also, since club running is also next to impossible (here you can thank the incompetence of USATF) to get in the meets that you might prefer, you are likely stuck with option two.

2nd - suck it up and hope that she learns something before you are finished HS (possible but I'm not betting on it).

If your gut says that 20 minutes (4minutes/km or 6.36/mile) is more reasonable as a goal pace, then train at (or slightly faster) than that pace, and ask to do more repeats (6 progressing to 8). Of course recovery in between is an important part of the process so so try not to make it too long (as with a 1500m session) - you could check your HR to see if you are recovered prior to the repeat. These should be reasonable requests that shouldn't impact on anyone one else on the team, although given the mindset of too many teacher-coaches I wouldn't bet on it.

what we all think wrote:

We all think you don't know anything about writing a training plan and should get off the internet and do what your coach tells you.

I seriously doubt that is what "we all think."

coach d,

I don't want to high jack the entire thread, but could you give me two "bread and butter" workouts you'd suggest for a male college 800m runner?...In other words, if you could only every have your 800 runners do two workouts, what would they be?

You're actually asking a bunch of questions.

1.) Should you be using a mile time trial as a basis of your training? YES! LOOK INTO JOE VIGIL'S TRAINING SYSTEM. HE USES A MILE TIME TRIAL AS THE BASIS FOR ALL OF HIS COACHING.

https://www.evernote.com/shard/s43/sh/20df57d2-d2fd-4845-990d-840014ec9096/c168f3d97113f7ad00da98537f5e50ff

2.) Should you be doing "race pace" work this early in the season? MAYBE. IT REALLY DEPENDS ON WHAT THE REST OF YOUR TRAINING LOOKS LIKE. ARE YOU DOING AEROBIC TRAINING IN ADDITION TO THIS RACE PACE WORK? TEMPO RUNS. STEADY STATE RUNS. LONG RUNS. ETC.

3.)Should you be doing 6 versus 8 repetitions & with how much rest? THIS IS PROBABLY A COACHING DECISION. SHOULD YOU DO ENOUGH REPS TO COVER RACE DISTANCE? 5K WORTH. 6K WORTH. OR, IS YOUR COACH GOING TO PROGRESS YOUR WORKOUTS OVER THE NEXT FEW WEEKS TO BUILD-UP TO COVER RACE DISTANCE? BUT, THE REST MAY BE PART OF THIS BUILD-UP TOO.

GOOD LUCK WITH YOUR SEASON. HAVE FAITH IN YOUR COACH.