Do you realize in 3 months in 2013, Japan has had 7 men go sub 2:09:15? All-time in history only 8 US men have done it.

rojo wrote:

7. 2:08:54 Dick Beardsley (New Balance) 4/19/1982

If you count Salazar's 2:08:13 from a short New York in 1981, which most people says is the equivalent of a 2:08:40...

So Beardsley is credited for his Boston time, but not Salazar? I don't understand the logic behind this...

Can anyone find a big 5K or 10k race where a Japanese runner even got noticed?

Kohei Murakoso (4th in 5K and 10K at 1936 Olympics) was a big hero for Zatopek.

Puzzled wrote:

So Beardsley is credited for his Boston time, but not Salazar? I don't understand the logic behind this...

Probably an oversight by rojo, since he did include the other "imports". But a sizable faction of letsrunners would DQ Salazar on the basis of the not-a-real-American rule.

A good post, but you have to admit the converse is also true. Given the greater depth there, if there guys were doing serious track training instead of half marathons and marathons when they're young don't you think they would be ahead of the U.S. on the track? They have guys who were running faster 5000 and 10000 m times than Ritz and Rupp in college.

I attribute this to X-men style mutations in Jap DNA resulting from the 2 bombs dropped on them in 1945.

ayxr wrote:

Can anyone find a big 5K or 10k race where a Japanese runner even got noticed?

For 5000 m, yes, they don't really do anything. For 10000 m, looking at the top U.S. and Japanese finishers at the Olympics and World Championships over the last 30 years it's pretty easy to see that the U.S. being consistently stronger is a relatively recent phenomenon, only within the last 10 or so years.

2012 London Olympics

2nd - Galen Rupp, 27:30.90

22nd - Yuki Sato, 28:44.06

2011 Daegu World Championships

7th - Galen Rupp, 27:26.84

15th - Yuki Sato, 29:04.15

2009 Berlin World Championships

6th - Dathan Ritzenhein, 27:22.28

25th - Yuki Iwai, 29:24.12

2008 Beijing Olympics

13th - Galen Rupp, 27:36.99

28th - Kensuke Takezawa, 28:23.28

2007 Osaka World Championships

7th - Abdi Abdirahman, 27:56.62

12th - Kensuke Takezawa, 28:51.69

2005 Helsinki World Championships

13th - Abdi Abdirahman, 27:52.01

19th - Yu Mitsuya, 27:57.67

2004 Athens Olympics

12th - Dan Browne, 28:14.53

19th - Ryuji Ono, 29:06.50

2003 Paris World Championships

14th - Alan Culpepper, 28:14.92

18th - Tomoo Tsubota, 28:37.10

2001 Edmonton World Championships

15th - Toshinari Takaoka, 28:13.99

18th - Alan Culpepper, 28:18.44

2000 Sydney Olympics

5th - Toshinari Takaoka, 27:59.95

7th - Abdi Abdirahman, 28:09.04

1999 Seville World Championships

12th - Toshinari Takaoka, 28:30.73

21st - Brad Hauser, 29:18.21

1997 Athens World Championships

Heat 1

11th - Toshiyuki Hayata, 28:27.97

12th - Dan Middleman, 28:56.76

Heat 2

9th - Toshinari Takaoka, 28:07.36

14th - Brad Barquist, 29:43.01

1996 Atlanta Olympics

Heat 1

13th - Katsuhiko Hanada, 28:52.22

17th - Dan Middleman, 29:50.72

Heat 2

12th - Toshinari Takaoka, 28:38.18

16th - Brad Barquist, 29:11.20

1995 Gothenburg World Championships

9th - Todd Williams, 27:52.87

10th - Toshiyuki Hayata, 27:53.12

1993 Stuttgart World Championships

7th - Todd Williams, 28:30.49

15th - Tadashi Fukushima, 29:46.70

1992 Barcelona Olympics

10th - Todd Williams, 28:29.38

14th - Haruo Urata, 28:37.61

1991 Tokyo World Championships

10th - Koichi Morishita, 28:13.71

17th - Aaron Ramirez, 28:47.56

1988 Seoul Olympics

14th - Kozu Akutsu, 28:09.70

18th - Bruce Bickford, 29:09.74

1987 Rome World Championships

8th - Steve Plasencia, 28:11.38

20th - Kozu Akutsu, 28:45.89

1984 Los Angeles Olympics

7th - Yutaka Kanai, 28:27.06

15th - Pat Porter, 28:34.59

1983 Helsinki World Championships

13th - Mark Nenow, 28:17.28

heats - Kunimitsu Ito, 29:49.04

troof be told wrote:

So anyway, as the Americans fight amongst themselves, the real issue is the Japanese are rocking this year, especially with African drug use coming to the forefront. The Japanese are doing something right. Could it have anything to do with their college guys focusing on longer distances?

Nope its because the Japanese runners understand and apply sacrifice.

US kids are soft. Racing here is over scheduled and athletes frequently prepare themselves for the ONE big performance. That moment passes and they're done for the year.

US athletes lack personal inspiration. You are self limiting. Of course nothing I say matters, as you are too busy limiting yourselves. I wish it wasn't true. But you are soft. And weak.

Thanks for that info.

Interesting the difference in times between Rupp and Sato. That's a lot of track between them.

I would say if you compare the average American guy with the average Japanese guy, the average Japanese guy is much more effeminate. One big advantage the Japanese has is a giant pool of 120 pounders. The average Japanese guy is built like a marathoner...also there is incredible socila benefits for being a great runner is Japan while obviously not so much in the US.

zatopek3210 wrote:

I would say if you compare the average American guy with the average Japanese guy, the average Japanese guy is much more effeminate. One big advantage the Japanese has is a giant pool of 120 pounders. The average Japanese guy is built like a marathoner...also there is incredible socila benefits for being a great runner is Japan while obviously not so much in the US.

Just in the shear size of the american population, and the ones who sneak over the border, there is more than a big enough pool of small people in this country.

Sure percentages work in your argument's favor, but volume of small skinny people in this enormous population is shirley big enough to overcome your soft inside and outside.

Fact is that US disatnce athletes by and large are spectators and online posters. There isn't the deseration and passion that world class athletes need.

There is plenty of talent here, but its coddled. Looking for your social benefits.....lol

What Japan has going for it is the combination of a large talent pool, with a large number of people with the correct body type, and great incentive from society to succeed at this sport, fame...admiration etc. Also it is one sport that Japanese can succeed at on the international level. Clearly there aren't many possibilities to be successful in sports that require size, so this is their chance to shine on the world stage. The other big point that was mentioned earlier is that most of their talent pool is focused on the long distances, over 10K.

Having lived in Japan for many years, I can say that Japanese are not any more passionate or hardworking or mentally tougher than the average American. It is just that a large talent pool has focused on one event and has had predictable success.

I'm japanese.

American Distance Running is Amazing.

But, American Marathon running is strange.

I' m surprise Fukuoka Marathon result.

10k sub-28 runner are Not sub-15 or DNF!!!??

(Vail is not bad)

First little sad that on first posting you all missed Ritz and that Al Sal had run a 2:08 at Boston particularly given that you listed Beardsley's time from that same race.

It really is shocking that Japan has 65 men sub 2:10 performances alltime compared to the USA alltime of 15 or 16 guys. It almost becomes more striking when you see how poor their alltime 1500m to 10k lists are. I think the national records are in the 3:37, 13:17, 27;34 range. You are talking outside the top 10 alltime for the US.

I think there is some truth to those who are pointing out that in the US the marathon is often done later or by guys who couldn't quite hack the track. Also there are a large number of fast course, competitive marathons to help foster fast times in Japan.

All that said the difference is still so striking that I think it speaks to two more deeply routed issues. I think that the US in general has a very good system of training and network of exceptional coaches who know how to produce great performances and improvements from 1500m to 10k but I think in general with some very notable exceptions, Squires, we have failed to figure out marathon training on a level that produces consistent success or performances that line up with out track times. IE most American distance runners run far slower then 10% slower then there 10k PR pace in the marathon.

On the other hand I think the opposite is true in Japan. You have network of great coaches and a practically nationalized training system that produces tremendous results in the marathon but frankly they have massively under performed in the shorter distances. It is basically normal to see a runner with a marathon PR that is inside 6% of a slowdown from there 10k pb pace which for a select few true slow twitch runners makes sense but for the majority shows a real under performance in the 10k.

Didnt realize that Halls run was 2 years ago. Time flies.