My boss told me I'm not allowed to take vacation or sick days...

wow, i'm surprised you're catching this kind of flack in a university setting. are you guys really that busy in your lab? if so, just help work, and when a low period comes around use up as many vacation days as you can.

PI wrote:

The boss will probably say yes, but everyone will resent you...an you will deserve it.

They will resent the fact that you had the balls to have your employer live up to the mutual agreement you made regarding vacation time. They want the newcomer to cower in the manner they do. You will instantly be the alpha dog.

It's time for you to leave mainland China and come to the USA.

Seriously, is your job exempt or non exempt?

What state are you in?

How did you get though the interview process and not find this out?

Go see HR but ask for anonimity. Get advice. HR are dweebs but it may be your best chance.

Be prepared to leave if you get outed or can't resolve.

There are other jobs.

Is this a private or public university? If you are employed by a public university, you may have due process rights if your employer tries to fire or demote you. If it is a private university, your state's wage and hours laws probably have some regulation regarding your ability to use vacation days. Vacation days are compensation. Your employer cannot promise to compensate you by letting you take paid vacation days and then break their promise by never letting you take the vacation days.

As for the office politics, of course you will piss people off if you start a fight over your vacation days. But, your employer is clearly exploiting you and your co-workers by denying vacation time. If your employer really is that busy, they may not want to have you quit or get fired over a few vacation days. Or they could make an example out of you and can your butt so everyone else is afraid to speak up for themselve. It is a crappy situation to be in.

PI wrote:

I'd start looking for a new job. It doesn't sound like you are cut out for this lab. Sounds like they are all pretty dedicated and successful. If your slacker attitude carries over to other things (and it always does), they probably hate you and talk about you behind your back anyway. Don't worry, you have plenty of company if you quit--lots of people are unsuccessful due to their lazy work habits.

yeah because anyone successful good at their job takes no time off or vacation days whatsoever.

ask for vacation and if they refuse say f**k off and find another job. theres more to life than punching in

Doesn't your university have an HR department or some academic equivalent? That's who you talk to. Your boss is your boss, but he is not allowed to violate institutional rules (his bosses), although he certainly has a right to ask you to not take time off because of how busy you are.

Which state do you work in?

explorer wrote:

The work I do is pretty much all prep work for the postdocs and my boss (a tenured professor), and while time consuming, it's easy and can be done by anyone else in the lab.

So you have a job that is easy and can be done by anyone? Not much job protection in that.

Most people don't call in sick a lot. Those that do don't often last in a job. Just what I have seen in my work life. You may think you have sick days and can take them, and you can, but over and over I see the ones calling in sick a lot being the ones let go 1st. The ones trying to game the system are the ones fired 1st. Right or wrong, that's reality.

This why people don't want to hire Americans.

You should be lucky you have a job.

Anyone else can do your job, that means you are expendable.

I didn't take vacation my first 4 years on the job, only when my boss begged me to take a vacation did I schedule something.

People who think they're doing a good thing by working while sick are infuriating. Yeah thanks coworker, I'm really enjoying this cold you gave me because you were such a "good employee" and didn't take a sick day! Oh, don't bother avoiding contact with other people, just come right in and cough on my desk. Goddamnit.

Roar!! wrote:

This why people don't want to hire Americans.

You should be lucky you have a job.

Anyone else can do your job, that means you are expendable.

I didn't take vacation my first 4 years on the job, only when my boss begged me to take a vacation did I schedule something.

You must be a really interesting person. I bet you'll have loads of great memories to reflect on when you get old.

Also work in a lab and like a few people here I'm working 10-12 hour days, 6-7 days a week. While technically I should be getting overtime, vacation days, etc., it just isn't in the culture of any science lab I've been affiliated with. That said, some are more flexible or aware of a work-life balance than others.

To be honest, I'd just start looking for another job if I were in your position. You might be able to fight for your vacation days, but in the end would it be worth it if everyone in the lab thought you were a slacker (even if you aren't)? The PI is the one who will be recommending you for the next lab and even though you might be able to technically win this fight, the question is if it would really be an overall win for you. I'm not sure it would be.

My job can be done by anyone else in the lab (everyone is either a PhD student or post doc), not anyone off the street.

I only get sick once or twice a year, and I dont plan on abusing sick leave at all. I really don't like the idea of getting bitched out because I stayed home because I was too sick to stand though.

And as for vacation and HR and everything, our office manager that deals with all these things was the one who told me that as a benefited employee I get this vacation and sick time.

It's a public university.

I don't need this job, really. My resume is pretty stacked, I have good references, etc, and I could get another job if I wanted. I'm not going to worry about that right now though. I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. I'm just pretty shocked that these people totally allow themselves to be taken advantage of. I mean, 30 days paid vacation that is going to waste? That's thousands of dollars to do whatever you want, and this guy isn't taking it because he said our boss said no. lol, what? Like I say, everyone's foreign, so I'm not sure they really understand their rights, nor am I sure my boss understands our rights. I don't really have any problem mixing it up with authority figures, but of course I don't want to unless I have to.

Thanks for all the advice.

The fact that you refer to it as "punching in" demonstrates that you have a very blue-collar attitude toward working and also explains why you will never be truly successful.

PI wrote: The boss will probably say yes, but everyone will resent you...an you will deserve it.

It's very easy to confuse quality and quantity -- lots of people do it, even PIs. That being said, what you should aspire to (and what you employer will value if he/she isn't an idiot) is quality.

Personally, when I was doing my PhD and post-doc, I worked like a mofo -- long hours, weekends, etc. And periodically I took great vacations, to go hiking in cool places around the world (and to go to races, for that matter). Then when I got back to the lab, I was back in work mode, and more productive than ever. I was lucky in that I had bosses that were fine with that. On the other hand, there were other people in the same labs who were too insecure to take vacation time. At no point did I worry that my boss would rather have another one of them instead of me, because my work was good.

In fairness, I did once interview for a post-doc position at a very well-respected lab at an Ivy League school. By the end of the visit, it was clear that the PI and I didn't see eye-to-eye on things like work-life balance, and frankly didn't like each other. I wasn't offered the position, and wouldn't have taken it anyway -- but I guess if you're in a lab like that, you might have to dance to the PI's tune. Or decide to move on.

PI wrote:

The fact that you refer to it as "punching in" demonstrates that you have a very blue-collar attitude toward working and also explains why you will never be truly successful.

Thanks, nerd. You sound like a total p*ssy. This guy should stand up for himself. Get those vacation days; if they say sh*t, leave and find a better employer. You're not a godd*mn serf.

explorer wrote:

I'm just pretty shocked that these people totally allow themselves to be taken advantage of. I mean, 30 days paid vacation that is going to waste? That's thousands of dollars to do whatever you want, and this guy isn't taking it because he said our boss said no. lol, what? Like I say, everyone's foreign, so I'm not sure they really understand their rights, nor am I sure my boss understands our rights. I don't really have any problem mixing it up with authority figures, but of course I don't want to unless I have to.

Thanks for all the advice.

See, in my lab most people don't WANT to take vacation days. Particularly the foreign researchers; they WANT to be in the lab 365 days/year.

I'm with you on wanting balance, though, especially for what they're paying me (which is in line with what others make, so no problems there, but isn't enough to keep me chained to the job 24/7/365.)

Also keep in mind that having a PI who thinks you don't have a work ethic is going to make your life pretty miserable. We've already had an issue in my lab with a foreign post doc repeatedly denigrating our new-ish lab tech for "only" working 12-hour days, 6 days a week, and having the audacity to only come into the lab for 3 hours on a Sunday. It's making the tech's life pretty miserable even though he's technically in the right. Actually, he is working so much harder than most other people, but that doesn't make it any easier to get through the day with this post doc.

I hope you are feeling better.

Start looking into conferences you can attend that are places you'd like to vacation. If the lab won't pick up the bill, scholarships are available. We always looked forward to the Spring conference as it was a week of skiing in Whistler.

But in all honesty, not being able to take an occasional three day weekend is an issue. Is the lab so well-funded that there's consistently that much of a solid push? Most labs ebb and flow and there's ample time to take vacation.