Everyone supposed to have skin in the game - but when will the 47% who pay no fed. income tax going to pay their share?

I'm not saying that you're 100% wrong, but people who make this arguement ignore a pretty big fact.

Everyone who makes a paycheck gets money withheld from it, right? The reason that these people "don't pay taxes" is because they get it all back, right? What do you think that money is doing all year? It's being invested, spent, whatever by the government. In essence, these people are giving the government an interest free loan. It might not be as much as what some other people pay, but it isn't like they're not contributing.

Not only that, but they're still paying sales tax, property tax (whether directly or indirectly it doesn't really matter), and paying whatever other taxes and fees may come their way.

When the 15% cough up their fair share.

-12/Troll

This is classic...

Yes money is withheld for entitlement programs like social security that you will get back (in theory) one day. Those are NOT income taxes, they are payroll taxes and are capped (around $105K I think for this year).

Also, government does not "invest". it spends and too often wastes that money. Libs will say it is wasted on the military and cons will say on social programs and on things like Solyndra.

Bringing property taxes into this is meaningless as is sales tax as the OP was specific in talking about fed income tax.

Here is my idea: everyone pays 10% income tax and every dollar earned. No deductions. No cap. Of course I prefer the FairTax (www.fairtax.org).

It's hard to complain about poor people paying no taxes when wealthy corporations like GE pay none.

If some large percentage of the population is already dependent on food stamps and in debt, why would we tax them 10% of income? Take a bunch of people who are already struggling, deduct an additional 10% of their income + take away deductions, and presumably you want to cut Medicaid as well. All to take a nearly meaningless amount of extra money as some kind of symbol so conservatives can stop whining about how great the poor have it in this country.

First of all, the government borrowed against SS to finance the high-end tax cuts that caused deficits and thereforenecessitated borrowing. The politicians had the will to cut taxes but not the will to cut spending,. Cutting entitlements now to cure the deficit is a bait and switch that allows the rich to shift the cost of those tax cuts / deficits back to the poor.

Moreover, everyone knows that the 47 percent got to be this way in large part by measures pushed by the old moderate Republicans, EITC, child tax credit, etc. In addition, the huge recession dropped incomes of many to a lower level.

The recession has been so bad because of the finance industry's complete lack of self governance , which led to a market failure - a banking crisis and millions of homes overvalued. There should be more capital controls and regulations. The public should not be in the position to rescue banks from gambling losses in order to maintain the economy.

Add up all taxes paid by each income level, accurately state the history and then make your argument. Otherwise you are just here repeating Drudge headlines.

luv2run wrote:

Here is my idea: everyone pays 10% income tax and every dollar earned. No deductions. No cap. Of course I prefer the FairTax (www.fairtax.org).

So your idea is an overall regressive tax policy?

When we have a VA tax, a wealth tax and eliminate payroll taxes.

Did this comment get Romney in trouble?

random a hole wrote:

luv2run wrote:

Here is my idea: everyone pays 10% income tax and every dollar earned. No deductions. No cap. Of course I prefer the FairTax (www.fairtax.org).

So your idea is an overall regressive tax policy?

I'm not luv2run and I am not that familiar with fairtax.org. That said, how are you thinking that they are proposing "an overall regressive tax policy". Aren't they suggesting a simple one-rate sales tax on everything? That seems neither regressive nor progressive, just flat.

Neither the left or the right is very good at seeing shades of grey. The 47% who don't pay federal taxes isn't comprised entirely of deadbeats sitting at home watching reality t.v. There are the very poor, the elderly, veterans, students, disabled, and blue collar workers. I lost my job and had to start over in a new field. I'm low income, and in the past three years, I've payed a combined total of a couple hundred dollars in federal taxes. I don't receive any federal assistance, and other than 2 years of stafford loans, I never have. I pay all my bills on time, and lead a very modest lifestyle (10 year old car, no t.v., only phone is an old-fashioned flip phone, no vacations, etc.). I work in a company with several hundred other people. With the exception of a few women who have popped out too many kids, all the people I work with have similar finances without receiving government aid. I absolutely don't mind paying a little more in taxes, but previous posters are right...you can't get too much more from me and anything you do get is coming straight out of money that would go towards things like groceries. Additionally, I do pay taxes on everything from food and gas to state income taxes. I'm slowly moving my way up the ladder and hope to be contributing more within the next two years, but most of my coworkers will be stuck at about the same level for life. For now, I don't really feel guilty about not voluntarily paying additional federal.

Despite the right wing claims that we're all freeloaders just looking for more handouts, I absolutely support welfare and social security reform to help balance the budget. There will always be some poor people that are lazy and cheat the system, but it's not exclusive to the lower class. There are tons of middle class and upper class people who play games to hide their income or have their adult children filing for food stamps while still being supported by their parents. Any one who can afford a good lawyer and accountant knows how the games work. It's naive to assume that everyone without money is looking for a free ride or everyone with money earned it through hard work.

What are you trying to say? wrote:

I'm not luv2run and I am not that familiar with fairtax.org. That said, how are you thinking that they are proposing "an overall regressive tax policy". Aren't they suggesting a simple one-rate sales tax on everything? That seems neither regressive nor progressive, just flat.

A one rate federal income tax would result OVERALL tax policy. Possibly my error in the use of "overall". By that I mean tax policy that enmpasses federal income, payroll, ss, sales taxes (probably the largest compnent) gasoline taxes, etc.

The result of L2R's suggestion for a flat federal income tax results in lower incomes paying a greater share of their income in taxes (all encompassing) than a higher income earner.

No Way wrote:

Everyone who makes a paycheck gets money withheld from it, right? The reason that these people "don't pay taxes" is because they get it all back, right? What do you think that money is doing all year? It's being invested, spent, whatever by the government. In essence, these people are giving the government an interest free loan. It might not be as much as what some other people pay, but it isn't like they're not contributing.

Is that the best you can do? Just claim exempt and quit giving the gov a free loan if you aren't going to have to pay taxes. You have to pay SS and Medi on your paycheck, but other than that, you do NOT have to have money withheld if you will "get it all back." Good lord, that is one of the lamest arguments I've heard yet.

They'll pay as soon as they acquire any meaningful wealth. When you have nothing, you can't very well pay much.

Look at how much of the nation's wealth is concentrated in the top few % and get back to us...

I think that if everyone is paying taxes it will make it much harder to raise them...

People making less money use a lot of government services typically. Maybe they would care more if it was their money being wasted.

also, if 10% is good enough for God, it should be good enough for Obama.

luv2run wrote:

I think that if everyone is paying taxes it will make it much harder to raise them...

People making less money use a lot of government services typically. Maybe they would care more if it was their money being wasted.

also, if 10% is good enough for God, it should be good enough for Obama.

So... do you propose going to gravel (or dirt) highways, teachers/police/fire staff reductions (while making 25K annually), poor library systems, no space program, no national arts endowment, a crippled military, no public transportation, no medicare, no medicaid, no FDA, no social security, an so on?

What a wonderful world you got there. At least people would care though, right?

luv2run wrote:

This is classic...

Yes money is withheld for entitlement programs like social security that you will get back (in theory) one day. Those are NOT income taxes, they are payroll taxes and are capped (around $105K I think for this year).

So wait. It's not your income because it's a payroll tax? Sounds like semantics to me. If its money that you earned, but is deducted and sent to the federal government..... I think most people would consider that to be a federal tax. When groups are very careful to defend their aguments on only the selected words they use, then you know they are simply staging an argument to back their beliefs. We would all be better off if we just looked at the facts, regardless of who is to blame.

So basically you aren't able to answer any of the difficult questions about your ideas, the most immediate of which is how you expect to get blood from a stone.