Sub 4:10, Sub 1:52

Sub 4:10 is a world away from 4:20. What you didn't tell us is how you did in XC. I'm afraid that it's really hard to give you any useful advice until we see how you fared with the bump in mileage this past season.

I ran identical times off similar mileage in high school but I wasn't able to go sub 4:10 until I averaged 65-70mpw with an emphasis on tempo runs and longer intervals. The only individuals that I know who can run fast miles on low mileage are A) Freakishly talented and/or B) Really fast 800m runners.

I ran a 15:48, I'm not sure that the miles I did were good enough in terms of quality, they were mostly around 7 minutes, but I made a huge mileage jump for 40 to 60 per week.

That's about the time I would expect for 5k XC for a runner at your level. Your limiting factor is truly going to be your endurance.

My advice is simple:

-On easy days run as fast as you can without effort. Ignore your watch.

-Do a long run on Sundays ~12-16 miles

-If you cannot handle 65-70 miles a week on singles, wake up early and do 4-mile morning runs before school 3 days a week.

-Do one 3-5 mile tempo per week where you run about ~15-20s/mile slower than XC pace.

-Do one interval workout per week where you run repeat miles/800s/400s (do the shorter intervals once the track season starts)

-10 strides after every easy run, long run, and workout.

-Sleep no less than 8-9 hours/night for recovery

I went from 4:20 to 4:05 in 2 seasons using only this approach after being stuck at ~4:20 for 3 years. I hope this helps and good luck.

Thanks for the response. You are right that I have to work on my endurance. I think I can run a 50/51 second 400 this year or maybe even under 50 (I ran a 52 last year as my third event of the meet) so I have plenty of speed. Early in the season (January/Febuary) do you think doing 2 tempos a week would be a good idea? This would be before starting longer interval workouts.

This is pretty similar to the advice I was going to offer. Follow this and you should have a great season.

bump

Here are your options for the 2nd workout if you don't want to get on the track:1. Long hill repeats. Should add up to 5-8k2. Fartlek on a distance run (1 mile on, 1/2 mile off, repeat about 4-5 times). Make sure you have 4-6 miles of "on" work.When I first broke 4:10 I hadn't set foot on the track in nearly 7 months. This type of training is pretty foolproof.Seriously, good luck.

Track2013 wrote:

Thanks for the response. You are right that I have to work on my endurance. I think I can run a 50/51 second 400 this year or maybe even under 50 (I ran a 52 last year as my third event of the meet) so I have plenty of speed. Early in the season (January/Febuary) do you think doing 2 tempos a week would be a good idea? This would be before starting longer interval workouts.

thanks for the response how fast would easy pace be between the quality miles in the fartlek? 7:30 is what I was thinking and roughly how fast would the quality portion be 5:15, 5:30? Thanks again

The time is unimportant. You should pretty much always train by effort. As you get faster, an equivalent effort just happens to be at a faster pace.

Easy effort = feels like distance run

Farlek effort = feels a bit slower than XC pace

At 4:10 shape I was alternating between 6:40 and 5:00. But some days were faster or slower. My tempos when I could do 4:03 were typically at 4:50 pace.

bump

This all sounds great; I only worry that having so recently bumped up from 40 to 60, bumping up again to 65-70 might be a bit of a risk? Certainly doubles and lots of sleep will help, but still...

Increase quality or quantity, never both at the same time. However, from in my type of training the "quality" is always the same effort, so I tend to focus on quantity.There are five things you can do for better recovery:1. Eat something small within 15 minutes of finishing your run/workout. It replenishes glycogen stores.2. Take your easy runs easier!3. Massage and stretch throughout the day.4. Sleep 9 hours/night instead of 7-8. It allows you to take advantage of more growth hormone which is at peak secretion from your pituitary nearly 7-8 hours in.5. Split your runs into AM and PM. If you can't handle 9-10 miles at once, do 4 in the AM and 5-6 in the PM.

mileage man wrote:

This all sounds great; I only worry that having so recently bumped up from 40 to 60, bumping up again to 65-70 might be a bit of a risk? Certainly doubles and lots of sleep will help, but still...

4:10 is not a world away from 4:20 -- if you have talent and heart.

you are at a point in your career that you should train for big drops.

a decent coach should be able to get you a six or seven second drop at least over 1600m, a bit more if you've just been through a growth spurt.

12-16 mile long runs is just silly. they hold a stopwatch not a sundial.

a good 45 miles/week beats a slogging snail-paced 90 miles/week.

if you ran 1:56/4:20 mostly you need to drop ~2sec on your 4x400m

and get in the faster meets or work with your teammates to set up the right time trials. mostly, the small meets will have no value aside from workout.

you cannot max out racing for 3 months straight. choose your key races.

1:52/4:10 requires 49-52 4x400m capability and roughly 30-50 miles/week of smart training. maybe 25/week as a low if you have 50 4x400m speed and are light.

if you are in california, the biggest obstacle is the tendency to over do the racing.

dsrunner

My advice is not training-related, but instead I would advise to race on a 4xmile team at Penn Relays. The adrenaline rush alone will get you under 4:10, I promise.

Look up on eighlane forum the 800m thread

Some good specific sessions on there posted by fast guys

Read this:

http://raiderathletics.blogspot.com/p/training-405-high-school-miler.html

Great perspective on how strength training correlates with speed.

This is good stuff!

Really helpfull to read.

I am not a miler, but these workouts and ideas sound great for improving strength and speed.

wow thanks so much that was a very informative read. 4:05 mile on only 33mpw, he must have been extremely talented. I wish the blog said more. I will definately incorporate some of those ideas into my training.

There's an interview on jay Johnson's site with this coach. Definately worth a listen as it explains some of the workouts.

Good luck. Post here when u hit 4:09!