Complaints about NCAA Nationals @ Louisville’s course by coaches: Right or Wrong?

joho wrote:

Road Horror wrote:

I heard the course is as flat as a pancake, true?

It is flat and, when dry, is a pretty fast course. There might be a few spots that arent a full 10m wide but most of the course is. I also understand that they have removed some trees and bushes along the course to help meet the standards. I haven't seen the course since these changes were made so I can't speak to if that is true or not.

Do you know if those changes were made before or after the PreNats course. If they had already been made, then the comments from that race have full force. If they were made after the PreNats race, the experience at NCAAs should be a bit better.

Countering being a bit better is the fact that at PreNats, the 200th best runner will have been much further back than at NCAAs, where probably the top 225 are as good as the top 100 at PreNats (just a wild guess), and that spells trouble. Also, at PreNats, the problems were not too costly for many of the runners. Here, they are big for almost every one.

By the way, at the Zimmer/Wisconsin course, since most spectators will be bussed in the admission fee can be collected easily at the busing point. If people need to wear a tag of some sort, those without tags getting on the bus would be more noticeable, and those walking up the road to get to the start would also be noticeable by putting a couple of ticket takers right at that entrance.

In case you guys haven't seen, here is the video detailing the entire course.

http://www.flotrack.org/coverage/240354-Big-East-Cross-Country-Championships-2011/video/512132-EP-Tom-Sawyer-State-Park-Mens-8k-Course-Preview-Big-East-2011

t94bell wrote:

In case you guys haven't seen, here is the video detailing the entire course.

http://www.flotrack.org/coverage/240354-Big-East-Cross-Country-Championships-2011/video/512132-EP-Tom-Sawyer-State-Park-Mens-8k-Course-Preview-Big-East-2011

They run 8k in DI now?

This is the 8km loop, not the 10km loop. I think that they have to go on to that late loop (with the BMX etc) on the first loop (by about 2km?) before repeating the first part. This is going to have the race affected by those narrow locations, which will have an affect for many meters thereafter because you either have to sprint ahead or slow down. If there is real congestion, it will leave the running speed well below the optimal speed through the course. As the one poster said, they went over several athletes that went down, and PreNats had only a handful of good teams, not 31 plus another 5+ equivalent in terms of individuals.

I'm hoping there is some good race footage at the congested spots, like how all the camera men set up at the water jump of the steeple just waiting for the crashes.

Do the box draws matter a little more, given the squeeze at 400M? Ten boxes are for the 39 individuals, giving 40 total boxes. Lalang and Sambu are in 40.

Here are the draws for the top 10 teams:

Wisconsin 1

Portland 9

Iona 11

Northern Arizona 18

Oklahoma State 19

Oklahoma 20

BYU 21

Colorado 23

Stanford 31

Texas 34

41 total boxes, obviously.

XC is not a major so it should not matter.

Someone Had to Do iT! wrote:

t94bell wrote:

In case you guys haven't seen, here is the video detailing the entire course.

http://www.flotrack.org/coverage/240354-Big-East-Cross-Country-Championships-2011/video/512132-EP-Tom-Sawyer-State-Park-Mens-8k-Course-Preview-Big-East-2011

They run 8k in DI now?

Sorry, should've mentioned it's 8K status. An idea of the surroundings and turns however.

t94bell wrote:

Someone Had to Do iT! wrote:

They run 8k in DI now?

Sorry, should've mentioned it's 8K status. An idea of the surroundings and turns however.

No problem...just giving you a hard time. I like how in the video they stress a nice, or big turn as features of the course...boring!

is the promise ring dead? wrote:

I got word from around different regions this past weekend that coaches were complaining about nationals being held at Louisville mainly stating how the course isn’t a good fit to host nationals. Coaches were fired up and blamed NCAA officials for picking Louisville.

Is this an overreaction or should nationals have been held at a different location?

Forget about the folly of NCAA choosing this course. The NCAA is simply a joke, period, when it comes to XC. For starters, what have they done to address the destruction of XC in the amateur college ranks in America due to the unethical import by unscrupulous coaches of professional level runners from Africa? What has they NCAA dome to address the issue of overaged runners, i.e., anyone over the age of 23, running in the college scene in America? Until these NCAA officials address the fundamental destruction of the amateur college running scene in America be these factors, the least of our problems will be the dunderheaded decisions to hold XC NCAA finals on flat golf courses, which, admittedly, is a major farce. Move the NCAA finals to a real XC course like a Bowdoin or a VCP in NY.

Why doesn't anyone submit a bid at VCP or Bowdoin?

Though as a fan, it is my favorite venue, Bowdoin Park would seem to fail on the width criterion for NCAA nationals or regionals. Having a course with that much hill in it would really upset the FLO ranking applecart. VCP may successfully bid on future NE Regionals - great course - although I think it's optimal use is for shorter distances (5K, 2.5mile).

The professional level runners from Africa have made the NCAA better! How many runners in the field on Saturday will be "overaged" and how many people/the competing runners included really care?

So how are things looking out on the course? Looks like perfect conditions for the meet.

coarse is looking stellar, sunny, calm, and mid 50's forecast for Noon Saturday, going to be perfect running weather!

If it's not too cold for him, I could see Lalang throw down a blazing 10k Saturday. Louisville is fast as hell when the conditions are good (as shown by his 8k there).

on the scene wrote:

coarse is looking stellar, sunny, calm, and mid 50's forecast for Noon Saturday, going to be perfect running weather!

So it's Rupp Certified? What's the footing like on the gravel roads? Will spikes even be needed?

Mick Byrne's thoughts on the course:

"Not sure what all the hype was about the course cause I've seen much worse."

https://twitter.com/WisconsinXC