6 Ways to get FASTER- Critique

Xfitguy_the_real_one_1 wrote:

That's where we disagree, bro. Steady State cardio is a waste of time, nothing else. Try crossfit style sprint repeats instead.

For starters, we both agree that periodized strength training is superior to Crossfit training for strength.

As for the merits of steady state vs. HiiT, the 5k times of elite Crossfitters tell the tale.

Hey Precious Roy, thanks for the good feedback here.

I agree on the range of motion over flexibility. One professor I had referred to the ability to staticly stretch as "stretchability" and the range of motion as "flexibility."

I definitely agree with periodization... but do you think its important enough to be one of the principles? I suppose you're likely right. I'll think on that one. What does everyone else think?

thanks for the feedback!

Mutai in Training wrote:

What does everyone else think?

thanks for the feedback!

Under the Neuromuscular Coord section, you need to specifically mention short, sharp sprints done as fast as possible for no longer than 8 seconds. This stimulates fast-twitch fibres, improves efficiency, and remains alactic. You need full rest between each effort, say, 4 minutes. Do ten. Why not do it barefoot on grass to encourage striking the ground higher up on the foot. Good time to get those drills in during the warm-up. However, high knees, butt kicks, and B-skips are hopeless drills. Think 'step over, drive down'. Distance runners neglect sprinting practice, which decreases their ability to maintain a fast pace with good running economy. Your sprint finish will also seem more natural and powerful.

Distance runners, once they have mastered body-weight exercises, and got a strong and balanced core, need to lift heavy so they get strong with minimal increases in mass. Good guys to check out are Gray Cook's Functional Movement stuff for the core, and Barry Ross about using the deadlift to increase strength.

Xfitguy_the_real_one_1 wrote:

That's where we disagree, bro. Steady State cardio is a waste of time, nothing else. Try crossfit style sprint repeats instead.

Since this thread is about 5k & 10k training, please tell us what the average cross-fitter (and you too) runs for 5k & 10k off of only cross fit style training & spring repeats, and zero steady state cardio.

Mutai in Training wrote:

Hey Precious Roy, thanks for the good feedback here.

I agree on the range of motion over flexibility. One professor I had referred to the ability to staticly stretch as "stretchability" and the range of motion as "flexibility."

I definitely agree with periodization... but do you think its important enough to be one of the principles? I suppose you're likely right. I'll think on that one. What does everyone else think?

thanks for the feedback!

I was going to suggest "periodization" as well. It really is a fundamental principle of training as far as I'm concerned.

Hey Lydiard is God, thanks for the thoughts I appreciate that!

I like your 'short sharp sprints' I'll add those in there, that makes a lot of sense to me.

Why, however, do you say high-knees, butt kicks, are hopeless drills? What if practiced regularly with intention and intensity to improve range of motion and neuromuscular coordination as well as strength? Not worth it? What would you advocate as a replacement? Anything more than the short sharp sprints?

Thanks for your input.

More Than You Think- thanks, I think I will add the periodization. It doesn't quite fit with the other principles that i've got on there, but it seems important enough. thanks!

What does everyone else think? I'm really interested in feedback on the drills and stuff like that. How important are those for a 5/10k runner anyway?

ps. just ignore the crossfiters

Mutai in Training wrote:

Why, however, do you say high-knees, butt kicks, are hopeless drills? What if practiced regularly with intention and intensity to improve range of motion and neuromuscular coordination as well as strength? Not worth it? What would you advocate as a replacement? Anything more than the short sharp sprints?

Thanks for your input.

What does everyone else think? I'm really interested in feedback on the drills and stuff like that. How important are those for a 5/10k runner anyway?

ps. just ignore the crossfiters

There is a guy called Latif Thomas, who was, apparently, a reasonable sprinter, and has become a HS sprints coach. He is rather opinionated, and does spruik a variety of his products on the web. No doubt, some people think he is a complete tosser.

However, I have found a lot of his stuff makes excellent sense. He has a great array of warm-up routines, flexibility/ROM exercises, and drills. He despises high knees and butt kicks because he thinks they emphasise the wrong elements of speed. The fundamental requirement is force applied to the ground. Here are two links. His stuff, I reckon, is good, and worth checking out. Easily the most neglected part of most distance programs, especially the long-distance guys. You need to actually see it in action to appreciate what he's trying to impart. I've actually got his DVD set. Of course, it's for sprinters, but a lot of it applies to running fast whatever distance. Even learning how to accelerate better is useful, if it enables you to reach faster top-end speed, and, thus, experience running even faster.

It's disgraceful that nobody mentioned ANY sort of long run this far into the thread. A longer hard run up to 2 hours over a hilly route is critical for a good 10k

Mountain running. Especially the downhill, just think how much benefit those East Africans get from this. After a few sessions of up and down a mountain, you would be able to run 4 miles down a not too steep grade at close to 4 minute mile pace without working too hard.

You can spend years not doing stuff like this for fear of injury, or just a few weeks and really improve your pace. All you have to do (apart from live or train near a mountain) is concentrate on making sure you are running smootly and efficiently, and you won't get injured.

bad as naomi russell wrote:

the creatine phosphate system would supply the energy for the short sprints, so they wouldn't be using anaerobic metabolism. this would also hold true for the first 10 seconds of a longer sprint.

but if you take a 10 sec all-out sprint and make it a 20-30s sprint & beyond at the same effort, you are going to run out of oxygen at some point...thus you'll switch from (after CP is used up) using aerobic respiration to anaerobic respiration to get your energy as you start feeling fatigue and tying up, right?

CP->aerobic when you have enough O2 for oxidative phosphorylation->to anaerobic when the O2 runs out? what am I missing?

yykes wrote:

There is no such thing as 'going anaerobic' short sprints such as the ones you describe are more anaerobic than long ones, where you go more aerobic.

What are you missing? The sequence of energy sytems. You don't 'run out of oxygen' you don't 'go anaerobic'

Creatine phosphate is an anaerobic energy source, when that is depleted after about 6 seconds in a sprint, you use glycolysis/glycogenolsis which is also anaerobic and gradually the aerobic contribution increases, not the other way round.

I like the list and appreciate the attempt at a serious running discussion.

I don't know that I agree with limiting tempo runs to 10% of weekly mileage.

I also agree with those that say you need to somehow work periodization into your list. Maybe add to each point, when (meaning at what point in the seaon) or how often it should be stressed (weekly, every other week...)?

Hills. enough said.

Lydiard Is God-

Awesome, thanks for the input on Latif Thomas. I think you're right that he's got good stuff. I'm going to take out the High knees and butt kicks and add in A-Skips etc... Seems to make a lot of sense. So now the dynamic drills/plyos that I'll be using are the following:

A-Step/march, A-Skip, High Knee Karaoke, standing high jumps, and short sharp sprints, anyone have others I should consider?

To Thread Is Incomplete:

Good point. I'll add a Long Run of up to 25% of weekly volume should be done regularly . Does that sound right to you. Side note: my current training lan alternates a 90min long run one week with a 2 hour long run the next week. Training for the 10k. How does that sound?

in response to What Really Makes you Fast-

Do you really think mountain running is so important to be one of 6 or 7 principles of 5 and 10k training? I do like hill training but I'm not convinced its necessary for success. Can you elaborate for us? Is there benefit even when training for the Track (no hills) as I, and most others, are starting to do this time of year?

To JoHo, the 10% cap on Tempo runs comes from Jack Daniels. I'm open to you're thoughts what limit, if any, would you put on Tempo length. My current plan was to alternate 10k, 45minute, and 10 mile tempo runs. So slightly breaking my own 10% cap rule as I'll probably be running ~80 MPW. Would you agree with that. Thanks for your feedback!

Thanks everyone, keep the good thoughts coming and I'll be a good runner yet!

-Mutai in Training

Here's more updated version. What's everyone think?

1.PREVENT INJURY

A. Increase flexibility and strength through plyos & stretches.

B. Be cautious with volume and intensity of training.

C. Periodize all training.

D. Healthy Lifestyle; icing, nutrition, hydration, sleep, etc.

2. IMPROVE AEROBIC CAPACITY

A. Build to at least 1 hour daily aerobic activity.

B. Run twice a day if possible/necessary.

C. Run a long run up to 25% of weekly volume.

3. IMPROVE RUNNING ECONOMY

A. Perform and practice running economy drills.

B. Run lots with good form.

4. IMPROVE LACTIC THRESHOLD

A. Tempo runs up to 1 hour long.

5. IMPROVE ANAEROBIC CAPACITY

A. Intervals up to 8% or 10 km of weekly volume,

2-5 minute work bouts with short rest.

B. Racing races 800m to 10km in length.

6. IMPROVE NEUROMUSCULAR COORDINATION

A. Repetition Intervals totaling 5% of weekly

volume .5-2 min work bouts with complete

rest.

B. Dynamic stretches and plyometric drills