princeton invite... the cross country course, is it short???

no its 8k. just a real nice course, fast grass, and only 1 tougher gradual hill. it was also a perfect day weather wise for cross.

With the way the loop and common start/finish worked out, the men's course is a little short and the women's a little long. Not a big difference.

Honestly, who cares if a course is short or long? A race is a race. You still have to beat the next guy or get beat, no matter if it is 5k, 8k, 10k or 7.873743996k.

/threader wrote:

it was also a perfect day weather wise for cross.

Bingo.

There were some good teams at the Invitational, but several were running their "B" or "C" squads, and still 20% of the field ran 25:00 or better:

OTOH at last year's Heptagonals meet--which had conditions that you could characterize as "challenging"--only four men out of 90+ broke 25:00, in a field that overall was of distinctly higher quality than this year's invite:

For a comparison, the first Ivy finisher at the Invite (who was also at Heps last year) was Cornell's John Schilkowsky. Now, he's certainly in better shape this year than last, and probably ran a better race this year, too; but 1:44 better (26:14 to 24:30)? Nah, maybe not.

The Heps are back at West Windsor this Saturday. The course will probably be slowed a bit by rain this week, and the temps will probably be a bit warmer than for the Invite; nevertheless, I'd bet you'll see some crazy fast times, for individuals and the field as a whole.

[Same thing on the women's side, btw. At this year's Invite, 5% of the field broke 22:00; at last year's Heps, with a stronger field, just one out of 90+ managed it, barely. Her name's D'Agostino.]

wow... harvard 1-5 were within 8 seconds of each other. thats pretty ballin

SCHWITE DRUTE wrote:

wow... harvard 1-5 were within 8 seconds of each other. thats pretty ballin

Agreed, but those were JVs--their front seven were at Wisconsin that weekend.

From what I understand, the course is about 60m short, so about 10 seconds.

I have also heard that it is 60 meters short. Not a big difference, but noticeable

I've heard it was 56 meters short, which is not quite 60, but more than 50.

I was looking at the Wisconsin and Pre-nationals results. Those times looked really fast too. I guess because soooooo many people were under 25:00, the course was probably short?

The Wisconsin course is about 70m short, but more importantly, the course was baked by repeated, record-breaking heat and drought so that it was faster than before. Also, the top two stayed with the pack until relatively late than then went all out, with a race plan that was probably faster. However, the modest start probably slowed times because it meant that there was more congestion and that some runners got to the front for longer than they should be at the pace that they were running. If you look closely at the results you will see a lot of re-sorting with a fair number of runners dropping a lot of places in the last several km.

For a comparison, the first Ivy finisher at the Invite (who was also at Heps last year) was Cornell's John Schilkowsky. Now, he's certainly in better shape this year than last, and probably ran a better race this year, too; but 1:44 better (26:14 to 24:30)? Nah, maybe not.

[Same thing on the women's side, btw. At this year's Invite, 5% of the field broke 22:00; at last year's Heps, with a stronger field, just one out of 90+ managed it, barely. Her name's D'Agostino.]

I am sure the difference in weather and course conditions was a huge factor. Last year at the Heps, athletes were being taken to the hospital for hypothermia.

Further to this:

The Heps were held today. The women's course, which had been running a bit long, was made (very roughly) 10secs shorter; I think the men's course is asserted to be 8k on the button (and same--I think?--as at the Invitational two weeks back):

http://www.ivyleaguesports.com/championships/xc/2012-13/Women.html

http://www.ivyleaguesports.com/championships/xc/2012-13/Men.html

So a woman who ran 22-flat today didn't crack the top 50 (out of 88 finishers); and if someone had run 21-flat, she would have been outside the top 15.

On the men's side, Schilkowsky was a couple seconds slower than at the Invite (okay, maybe the course *was* lengthened a bit for the men, I don't know) while running an excellent race, so the conditions (warmer and much more humid) may have been a factor; but still, today you could run 25-flat and it wouldn't put you in the top half of the finishers.

Yeah, fast course...and tough field. Run 24-flat and you'd only make second-team all-Ivy.

The men's course was unchanged, the women's course was slightly shortened to make it an exact 6k.

its fast course great for faster non hill mudder types , at the end of the day though , its who won and who didn't.

One sided wrote:

its fast course great for faster non hill mudder types , at the end of the day though , its who won and who didn't.

Yeah, you're right. If anything, I'd expect the Cornell folks to do better on a hillier course--god knows there are enough hills in their neck of the woods (experience speaks).